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~Oum AbdurRahman~
11-21-2006, 03:55 PM
Bismillahi Rahmaani Raheem,

As-salaamoualaikoum wa rahmtAllahi wa barakaatuh,

Here is something really interesting thing my best friend told me about. My best friend is by the way masha'Allah studying the shari'a at this time. She's from Holland and she's a been a new Muslim for about 3 years now. Her backround is that she's travelled the world over with one back pack. She's lived alot of her childhood in South Africa. She's got a Masters in Anthropology and Field Research. She's basically the one all my friends go to for advice, intuition, ideas, and encouragement. She's probably the most strongest Muslima I've ever met, and I adore her to death lillah. She's the only one I know, who adores reading Fiqh As-Sunnah all day, and she's constantly writes all over the books as she goes...subhanAllah. She's amazing.

Well anyways, I'd like to share something she told me in an email, and I find it extremely interesting:

" I remember once i was sitting with one of my friends in Holland and she had read this really good book about women, it was called: The Cinderella Complex and we were discussing this complex..let me tell you: a woman is fine when she has her own autonomy, she feels she has the power to do things, to bear whatever comes her way, but at the same time she craves for this love, this nurturing of someone and at the same time someone to hold and protect her, so she feels safe and she does not have to tire so much trying to be strong. So one day this person comes along, she marries him and is happy, she gets babies and she is happy, she is safe, secure ...everything she wished for right? Not really...she starts to be whiney, jeaulous of whatever her husband does, she complains to him alot about what he does, says, about how he treats her...she wants to know where he went and with whom, she feels he is never home nor caring about her at all. This is the Cinderella Complex: it has basically nothing to do with the man, nor with her life, it has to do with her, inside. She feels now she is cooking and cleaning and not doing exciting things, nor look pretty all the time, nor is special because she was pregnant, that she has become boring, not pretty, and she thinks that her husband probably feels the same...this makes her scared, she clings to him, afraid of loosing him, afraid he might not like her anymore...which in turn turns her into to moaning, whiney nagging housewife her husband indeed does not like anymore.

Now what to do with this complex? Break the circle, that's what the author said. Try to do someting different; cut your hair, go shopping and buy some new clothes and find something to do that you feel you excell in, something that makes you happy doing it and gives you energy, that makes you feel good about yourself.

Anyway, sorry about the long story. Of course this is kufaar stuff and not really applicable for us but still I believe there might be a truth to it somehow...we women do feel sometimes that we loose our men because we dont like ourselves anymore. And we turn into those horrible women we don't even like ourselves. Which in turn makes us feel more insecure about ourselves and makes us more this whiney housewife etc etc..the circle can go on and on.

I have been thinking a bit about this lately and I really feel that women need something for themselves, like in the days of the Prophet (saw) Aisha (RA) would ahve her own things,mostly,..her own house, her won visitors, slaves, friends...etc etc..she would be able to mostly live her live as she pleased it ...but of course she was most righteous..."

---
So, what do you all think? Feedback? I see this as a phenomenon, that is more widespread than we think.

Nazish Mithaiwala
11-25-2006, 05:45 PM
I agree. I seriously think that women are issue-full, but I can say that cause I'm girl :P

UmmSakinah
11-25-2006, 07:22 PM
wow, masyaallah! true...and you're right too about women needing to find something they like to do and break the cycle. I don't have any useful feedback for now but I might have in a few days insyaallah :) Takes me that long to ponder over something and come up with a novel. :P

Very interesting.

As of now, I would say, keeping ourselves busy doing something we like will break this cycle, be it arts and crafts, community service, anything that is not mundane such as housekeeping and routine child rearing. (the child rearing part is what I think makes women feel weary because they do the same things every day and they are not that able to keep their houses as clean as before they had children, or in my case, not as clean as it was when the kids were little and not big where their messes are also greater *roll eyes*)

Ibn Shaima
11-25-2006, 08:44 PM
Asalamu alaykum.

The husband can try to make her feel good about herself in this situation or time period too.

UmmSakinah
11-26-2006, 08:25 AM
waalaikumsalam,

It's teamwork in the end, but while the husbands come to their senses, these are the things women can do. :)

I know in some cultures, the women are very complacent in terms of standing up for the rights, and deep resentment can build over time. It's not easy for women to tell their husbands these things because men, with their nature, at times just brush off these types of discussions as unimportant and non pertaining to them. So the women don't even have a chance to go into depths about it and already they are ignored.

However, in order to save a marriage, most times, if the husbands are like this, the women can be patient and make efforts to let the husbands realize this (through many ways) but while that happens, which may take years, she can do these things so as not to fall in that horrible cycle.

Sirius1
11-26-2006, 11:00 AM
Considering the sorry situation many Muslim women currently live in, sometimes I wonder, whether advicing these women to be patient is really needed.

I mean, they compromise to an extent where their individuality is lost, and they become mere stooges, living under the husband's tyranny.

How about the men realize that maintaining women is their responsibility, and since they are given the leadership role, pay the role its due?

Learn about what a woman needs and become more sensitive to the needs of the individuals (wife and kids) you (husbands) are responsible for.

Thats what the job of a leader is, right? Right.

UmmSakinah
11-26-2006, 12:56 PM
Right, I agree that men need to be taught, but unless they (the men) are willing to listen to their wives when their wives tell them to go and listen to the sheikh or go take Fiqh Of Love, who are going to tell the men these? Or unless the men take Fiqh Of Love before they get married. :) Or unless we women pay particular attention to these qualities in future husbands.

Like I said, some men shut up their wives right away when their wives try to initiate the discussion.

Dua Weapon of the Believer by Yasir Qadhi is what keeps popping up in my mind when I think of 'hapless' situations like these. Who else can change your husband's ways and hearts except for Allah, if you're tried every other avenues yet to no avail?

If the situation is ideal i.e. father in law butts in every time and advises son in law regarding treatment of his daughter, all is well but what if it's not the case (which very often is the case unfortunately).

So it actually depends on the situation. If the couple is already married and this happens, tactfulness is pretty important as long as it has not escalated into something physically worse. No way am I saying that emotional abuse is less worse than physical abuse though.

Sirius1
11-26-2006, 02:07 PM
Right, I agree that men need to be taught, but unless they (the men) are willing to listen to their wives when their wives tell them to go and listen to the sheikh or go take Fiqh Of Love, who are going to tell the men these? Or unless the men take Fiqh Of Love before they get married. :) Or unless we women pay particular attention to these qualities in future husbands.Just like the founder of an organization needs to learn leadership skills before leading an entire organization...a business man needs to learn business skills before starting a business...a teacher needs to learn the art of teaching before assuming the position of a teacher...Men need to educate* themselves on the dynamics of running the familial organization before getting married. (*Parental role also come into play)

Its just a matter of common sense (or smart decision-making)...One should educate oneself (the theory part, keeping in mind that, though extremely important, theory doesn't teach everything, there has to be a limit) before blindly getting involved into something. Leaders have more responsibility in that respect.

In a marriage, if men wanna be the leader, then they gotta accept the responsibility (of maintaining women-- physically, emotionally, financially and...:)).

So it actually depends on the situation. If the couple is already married and this happens, tactfulness is pretty important as long as it has not escalated into something physically worse. No way am I saying that emotional abuse is less worse than physical abuse though.Yes, I agree. If the couple is already married and the man is not too strong in dealing with these issues, tactfulness along with education is necessary.

burgundy
11-27-2006, 07:37 AM
First of all, the cycle described that a woman can go through after marriage is not necessarily confined to the experience of non-muslims. I believe its a human thing that any couple can go through if they don't deal well w/ the transitions in their life.

I can't fully relate to this idea of the man never being around and just doing exciting things while the woman is burdened with everything in the house from morning to night, without him (and her) realizing that he (from his work and perhaps other obligations) and she from her daily grind, need a break and a refresher of sorts.

I also think that if a healthy relationship is happening between the couple, these feelings of nagging and all this won't happen to this extent, or this sense of alienation and feeling like the other does not understand.

Why should the woman feel boring? Haven't her and her husband shared a life together so far which insh'allah has built an intimate loving connection between them? Why doesn't she feel pretty? Is it truly because of the pregnancy or because most women simply do not put the time and effort into looking pretty the way they did before married life.

Shouldnt she like him and and shouldnt any and each Muslim be involved in whatever possible way in feeding their mind and soul on a regular basis, being members of the society that give back and take.

The women wnats to know where he went and with whom? Why a husband and wife wouldnt automatically share these things out of love and wanting to share their life's details with eachother..I don't quite understand.

Seems to me from teh first post..that either the man is not really interested in his woman, or the woman is a real drag to be around so all he can do is run away.

Plus why do married women need to feel like their only source of happiness and all kinds of intellectual stimulation is their husband? I think to expect so much and everything in fact from one individual is quite unfair. No human can be there for you 24 hours a day.

I believe a husband and wife are there to faciliate and share a happy life together and yes make a life together, but is she his ONLY source of happiness? I don't think so.
There's relatives, friends, other creative endeavours, mosque, reading, etc etc.

UmmSakinah
11-27-2006, 08:54 AM
Just like the founder of an organization needs to learn leadership skills before leading an entire organization...a business man needs to learn business skills before starting a business...a teacher needs to learn the art of teaching before assuming the position of a teacher...Men need to educate* themselves on the dynamics of running the familial organization before getting married. (*Parental role also come into play)

Its just a matter of common sense (or smart decision-making)...One should educate oneself (the theory part, keeping in mind that, though extremely important, theory doesn't teach everything, there has to be a limit) before blindly getting involved into something. Leaders have more responsibility in that respect.

In a marriage, if men wanna be the leader, then they gotta accept the responsibility (of maintaining women-- physically, emotionally, financially and...:)).

Yes, I agree. If the couple is already married and the man is not too strong in dealing with these issues, tactfulness along with education is necessary.So for those of you who are not yet married, you have all this before things you have to consider and learn about. :)

*Aasiyah*
12-02-2006, 01:29 AM
asalaamu `alaikum,

very nice and interesting discussion, mashaAllah.
this is an *item* topic of discussion of many women, found in different forms. everyone said very true comments.

something we already know, we always refer to the Quran and the Prophets s.a.a.w. sunnah. there is a book that I *ABSOLUTLEY* *LOVE* that I'm sure you already posess...

THE IDEAL MUSLIMAH

you can find this book online complete as an e-book. I love how this book organizes the Quran and Sunnah efficiently and effectively.

back to my point...women tend to focus on blame, who is to blame, who is at fault...and complain...and become vengeful...we know we women have issues:D. we should realise (while keeping the above mentioned in mind), that however our lives are, we should always (cliche) keep our eyes on the prize...by realising that we should be concerned about ourselves in relation to Allah swt. No matter what thulm (wrong/oppression) we go through, we should recognize that Allah swt is testing our conduct in affairs. So it is always was, and always will be...between you and Allah, not really between you and them.

but this doesn't mean we should wallow in despair, lay down and take the stomps to the face. the *aboves* mentioned some ideal solutions.

all in all, when we educate ourselves, we are leaving poverty. think of the feelings of poverty...misery, aimlessness, affliction...etc. we should feel this when we are not educated about the deen. we should always keep in soul, to empower with knowledge of the deen, ourselves, and others. the ideal muslimah is adept at preventing situations from even occurring! she's a professional who understands her rights and obligations to others, and that is what she is concerned with...in the meanwhile she is earning her ticket to abide in her real home: Jannah. riyadhussaaliheen.

thinking about how other people (mainly our husbands) behave will only be an obstacle of removing our eyes from the target (and the purpose of existence to worship Allah swt)...we should be concerned with our akhirah, and that will TRULY humble us and remove MANY problems between people. on the Day of Judegement, it is only between us and our Rabb, and how we conducted ourselves with the people in regards to our character (the heaviest thing weighed). so if on that DAY it is only between us and our Rabb, why not start now toDAY to have excellent humble akhlaaq and be professionals in knowing our rights to others?

we say to find happiness and absolving boredom through many other venues...WHY NOT through ALLAH SWT? He can give you what your heart could not even think/feel to desire!

When beautifying ourselves to our husbands and pleasing him, his belly, and providing tranquility in his house...it is truly pleasing Allah swt when you do it for Allah's sake alone. Isn't it so much pleasure to know that when you did something for HIS swt sake, you will be rewarded for it and you think of the endless possible rewards in Jannah?...and believe it...you get rewarded in this life too. I've seen cases with my own eyes unexpected gratitude from husbands and what they do in return for their wives! yet, even if there is no gratitude...there is pleasure from the ONE and ONLY that counts. We women have sooooooooooooo much to look forward to! we should be energized and eager to please our Rabbul `Alameen.

we must see the reality for what it is, with Islam goggles on. it's ok to suffer for a measly 70-100 years. that measured lifetime is only the shadow of a dust...compared to the entire never ending universes! women are the prime target to corrupt, we build the society sprouting from home! when we are uneducated in the deen, society suffers. hell is fueled with mainly women and stones.

subhanaAllah, women are so valuable, and we are very high on the ladder. the higher you are, the farther you fall...down south! hot weather down there I heard!

ok, i typed too much, but here's a few cents that I hope inshaAllah relayed a few messages in Allah's cause:)

as for the cinderella complex book, yes it's true for kuffar women, but not so...for the ideal muslimah. it's a wonderful thing to be Muslim! we have soooooo many opportunities that the kuffar women envy. I mean, we have references and answers to all things that exist in our existence! we don't suffer the way the kuffar do:) we have an eye in the storm whereas they don't;)

may we all become the ideal muslim/ah, Allahummah, s.a.a.w. amin.

(shout out to um sakina...i miss you!)

~Oum AbdurRahman~
12-02-2006, 12:00 PM
[QUOTE=Sirius1]Just like the founder of an organization needs to learn leadership skills before leading an entire organization...a business man needs to learn business skills before starting a business...a teacher needs to learn the art of teaching before assuming the position of a teacher...Men need to educate* themselves on the dynamics of running the familial organization before getting married. (*Parental role also come into play)

Its just a matter of common sense (or smart decision-making)...One should educate oneself (the theory part, keeping in mind that, though extremely important, theory doesn't teach everything, there has to be a limit) before blindly getting involved into something. Leaders have more responsibility in that respect.

In a marriage, if men wanna be the leader, then they gotta accept the responsibility (of maintaining women-- physically, emotionally, financially and...:)).

Yes, I agree. If the couple is already married and the man is not too strong in dealing with these issues, tactfulness along with educatiooulaan is necessary.[/QUOte/]


Salaamoualaikoum,

See I agree, sa7, men and women both have to do that. Educate themselves before diving in to a pool of responsibilty. BUT guess what? The problem becomes complicated, why? Because Cultural ideas as of WHAT is Leadership, and WHAT is considered justice comes into play most of the time, unfortunately, and in the end those deeply rooted ideals just sort of takes over. Cultural ways are hard to break. If you marry a man, who understands that his family(*everyone except the wife) are more important then his wife, then that's a big problem, for example. Or sometimes, husbands can't take an ayah, or a hadeeth, and just go to extremes with them, and leave you in more complicated situation begging for him to just sit and understand you about the concept of being "3adl" -Just, or taking the middle way in everything. This is just a small example.

The cycle starts to break, when he sees that you don't care as much anymore, that you've decided to focus your life on something else besides pleasing and running after him.

I'll give some fun ideas for those stuck in that boring, go nowhere cylce:

1. If you like arts, start making collages of fun things, politcal awareness, islamic collage with favorite hadeeth, ayaat, buy all kinds of fun supplies and go to town.
2. Start a teaching project, teach a English to little kids who can't understand- make it a hidden da3wah project. You see all kinds of jahl around you, okay try to work at changing the ummah of tomorrow.

3. Increase more 3ibaadah. You'll never be bored that way, plus you'll increase your rizq and your health.
4. Make new things in the home, rearrange furniture.
5.Make baby books out of pieces of cloth.
6.Concentrate on making a da3wah project of some kind.

ect...the list goes on.

It's not easy. For a woman who stays at home 24 hours a day, the only real human she sees most of the time is her husband. So automatically she begins to depend on him for her emotional support,(this naturally happens).
So to break THAT cycle, is to try to surround her with good religious ladies to sit with and to make friends with.

Most the men that mistreat their women, are still living in a phase of jahiliya, *unfortunately I've seen alot of it in the place I live, but it's getting a lot better then before-with the satellite TV, people started to become more ecducated, and more have even returned to the masaajid because of that widespread da3wah tool).

If he doesn't have time to go sit in a halaqah, put on the religious channels on TV, and always watch them together. Allah 3azza wa Jal works in mysterious mystical ways...Subhanna Allah. Allah is the only One who in the end can make a situation work out or not.

But then again, sometimes men have to be shown, that you are valuable. Allah works miracles in making someone understand...

Men who mistreat their wives, will see their day. When I see ignorance, I always say to myself,"Allah is watching them, and they will get their pay back one day." So really in the end, the patient one always wins. Allah is with the patient one. But SubhanAllah, sometimes patience is a miracle that suddenly happens out of nowhere.

Faqeera
12-03-2006, 08:51 PM
Try to do someting different; cut your hair, go shopping and buy some new clothes and find something to do that you feel you excell in, something that makes you happy doing it and gives you energy, that makes you feel good about yourself.

Anyway, sorry about the long story. Of course this is kufaar stuff and not really applicable for us but still I believe there might be a truth to it somehow...
Not necessarily kuffar stuff...a woman should constantly be finding things to not only keep herself from being depressed but to also keep her husband entertained...whether it is cutting her hair or buying new clothes to wear for him.

I know a married woman whose mom came from overseas and stayed with her for a little. During the time the mom was living with her, the mom would see how the wife would dress and behave towards her husband, including the fact that when the husband would come home, her daughter would wear the same clothes she was cooking with. The mom was actually VERY surprised at this and advised her daughter not to do this. Back there, the mom was used to the women cooking than making enough time to fix themselves up for their husbands (make-up, nice clothes, hair, etc...).

So Subhan'Allaah, it's all in the way of Allaah...even if the woman is tired of doing all of this, it REALLY does make a difference in strengthening the relationship.

Assalamu Alaikum

zawjatunjadidatun
12-03-2006, 11:11 PM
Salam alaykum,
A woman can get frustrated though if she is the only one trying to make things right,doing new things etc while her partner is not.it has to be a mutual relationship not a parasitic one

*Aasiyah*
12-05-2006, 09:55 PM
*parasitic* lol.

we are dependent, bc Allah swt described the roles in the Holy Quran. especially when we have kids. but in love notes class, we learned that men love to feel need, and they look elsewhere when their wives don't seem to need their husbands. i hope the message in this thread doesn't take away the duty that the alms that are most deserved from the wife is to her husband and her children. let's not forget the reward. (relayed from a hadith i'll post inshaAllah).

some women who are too independent, causes friction to the natural fitrah of marriage. we just need a balance. we can do the duties, make use of our free time...AND KNOW NOT TO NAG/COMPLAIN...
REMEMBER THE RUBBERBAND EFFECT?

Doc2be
12-07-2006, 01:35 AM
Bismillahi Rahmaani Raheem,

As-salaamoualaikoum wa rahmtAllahi wa barakaatuh,

Here is something really interesting thing my best friend told me about. My best friend is by the way masha'Allah studying the shari'a at this time. She's from Holland and she's a been a new Muslim for about 3 years now. Her backround is that she's travelled the world over with one back pack. She's lived alot of her childhood in South Africa. She's got a Masters in Anthropology and Field Research. She's basically the one all my friends go to for advice, intuition, ideas, and encouragement. She's probably the most strongest Muslima I've ever met, and I adore her to death lillah. She's the only one I know, who adores reading Fiqh As-Sunnah all day, and she's constantly writes all over the books as she goes...subhanAllah. She's amazing.



She attends Arees Institute (not Shaira focused)- covering various Islamic Topics. She has a Masters in Anthropology only, Ma sha Allah and she has never been to South Africa.


Facts-Jazzak Allah Khairan Oum Abdurrahman**

yasser_z
12-15-2006, 04:02 AM
this can also happen with men! ever heard the term 'whipped'?

my observation is that it happens when a person does not set goals for themself. i.e. they have no life, but the spouse has a life; and there is the conflict--

solution: set some goals, get a life!

may Allah grant you success and tranquility in your marriage.

UmmSakinah
12-15-2006, 10:21 AM
(shout out to um sakina...i miss you!)ditto aasiyah...:D

so basically the conclusion here is : both spouses get a life but not too much life :)

Sirius1
12-15-2006, 12:19 PM
so basically the conclusion here is : both spouses get a life but not too much life :)
:) I don't quite understand what you mean by that.