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Sirius1
11-30-2006, 06:31 PM
Salaam Alaykum!



I have a question about this hadith:

“There is nothing for two who love one another like marriage.”
Recorded by Ibn Majah.

(My) Reasoning:

If the love in the hadith is interpreted as lust--> What would the fate of the individuals who get married based on that feeling be? In other words, what if they fall in lust with a new person after marriage and decide to run after them? End of marriage??!!!

Point to be noted: It is possible for a person to fall in lust more than once.

If not interpreted as lust-->There is still the risk of falling in lust after marriage...as there was no fulfillment of desire in marriage...as the marriage was based on other things. This may trigger infidelity among the spouses causing them to possibly commit zina.

So, the question is: What exactly is meant by the phrase "the two who love one another"? Is this referring to the individuals who are physically attracted(i.e. lust) or someone whose love is based on personality (traits) (ex. similarity, familiarity, quality, etc. something like arranged marriages)?

I have come across two opinions (see the next 2 posts below). I haven't come up with a definite conclusion as to which one to agree with. Perhaps someone can help me out! :)

Sirius1
11-30-2006, 06:35 PM
Opinion #1

Excerpt from:

Marriage is for Lovers?


As-salamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah:

The Prophet (sall Allahu `alaihi wa sallam) said:

“There is nothing for two who love one another like marriage.”

Recorded by Ibn Majah.



It was graded sahih by Shaykh al-Albani in as-Sahihah no. 624 as well as others.

Classical Interpretation

In Faidh al-Qadeer (the commentary on Jami` as-Sagheer) al-Munaawi said:

“‘It is when a man looks at an ajnabiyah [unrelated woman] and his heart has desire of intercourse, then marrying her will result in increased love.’ This was mentioned by at-Teebi. And more correct than him is the saying of some of the elders that the meaning is that it is the greatest remedy to treat the passion of desire for marital relations. For it is a remedy which, there is no equal for by any means. And this is the meaning which is indicated by Allah, Glorious is He, after making women lawful; the free of them, and the slaves of them due to need, by His saying:

(Allah wants to lighten [the burden] for you, and man was created weak.) (An-Nisa’ 4:28)

So by Allah, Glorious is He, mentioning lightening in this subject and informing about man’s weakness, it proves that he is too weak to carry this desire, and that He, Glorious is He, lightened its matter for him by what He permitted for him of pure women. And with this explanation it clarifies that the information relates to when he intends to propose to a woman, and he sees her and feels love for her, then it is legislated that he may plan to marry her merely based on what he saw.”(End quote)

In Kifayat al-Hajjah, (the commentary on Sunan Ibn Majah) as-Sindi said:

“It is, then there is love between two, then that love will not be increased by anything among the various types of means of drawing nearer, nor will anything make it last, like the marriage tie. So if they are married with that love, then the love will increase and become stronger with every day.” (End quote)

Sirius1
11-30-2006, 06:46 PM
Opinion #2


From Ibn Hazm's "The Ring of the Dove"

Read this...

I indeed marvel profoundly at all those who pretend to fall in love at first sight; I cannot easily prevail upon myself to believe their claim, and prefer to consider such love as merely a kind of lust. As for thinking that that sort of attachment can really possess the inmost heart, and penetrate the veil of the soul's recess, that I cannot under any circumstances credit. Love has never truly gripped my bowels, save after a long lapse of time, and constant companionship with the person concerned, sharing with him all that while my every occupation, be it earnest or frivolous. So I am alike in consolation and in passion; I have never in my life forgotten any romance, and my nostalgia for every former attachment is such that I well nigh choke when I drink, and suffocate when I eat. The man who is not so constituted quickly finds complete relief and is at rest again; I have never wearied of anything once I have known it, and neither have I hastened to feel at home with it on first acquaintance. Similarly I have never longed for a change for change's sake, in any of the things that I have possessed; I am speaking here not only of friends and comrades, but' also of all the other things a man uses-clothes, riding-beast, food, and so on. Life holds no joy for me, and I do nothing but hang my head and feel utterly cast down, ever since I first tasted the bitterness of being-separated from those I love. It is an anguish that constantly revisits me, an agony of grief that ceases not for a moment to assail me. My remembrance of past happiness has abated for me every joy that I may look for in the future. I am a dead man, though counted among the living, slain by sorrow and buried by sadness, entombed while yet a dweller on the face of this mortal earth. Allah be praised, whatever be the circumstances that befall us; there is indeed no other God but He! I have meditated upon this theme in verse as follows. Read Poem 1<--Click!

NOW read this...


As for what transpires at first blush as a result of certain accidental circumstances-physical admiration, and visual enchantment which does not go beyond mere external forms-and this is the very secret and meaning of carnal desire; when carnal desire moreover becomes so overflowing that it surpasses these bounds, and when such an overflow coincides with a spiritual union, in which the natural instincts share equally with the soul; the resulting phenomenon is called passionate love. Herein lies the root of the error, which misleads a man into asserting that he loves two persons, or is passionately enamored of two entirely different individuals. All this is to be explained as springing out of carnal' desire, as we have just described; it is called love only metaphorically, and not in the true meaning of the term. As for the true lover, his yearning of the soul is so excessive as to divert him from all his religious and mundane occupations; how then should he have room to busy himself with a second love affair?
Read Poem 2<--Click!

Sirius1
12-01-2006, 09:46 AM
If any part of the question seems confusing, please ask. :)

One calls it love and the other doesn't...

*Aasiyah*
12-02-2006, 01:45 AM
asalaamu `alaikum sister;)

have you tried islamqa? also there are other websites that answer quickly. i would like to know the answer also.

~Oum AbdurRahman~
12-02-2006, 11:32 AM
Salaamoulaiakoum,
Okay I cannot say that I'm educated, or knowledgeable, however, I can give you just a little input.

"Love" normally doesn't develop until later in the marriage.
Lust is always that initial physical attraction. Usually with lust, comes love, as long everyone was obedient to Allah before marriage, the Allah will bless that "lust" into a solid "love" there after insha'allah.
These are my thoughts-- nothing more...

UmmSakinah
12-02-2006, 12:04 PM
In Fiqh Of Love, Shaykh Yaser talked about different kinds of love, and this might answer the contradicting definition of 'love' in the question.

As for the other part of the question (marrying for lust and love comes afterwards), I have to try and recall what was taught in class. Right now, I'm empty.

Sirius1
12-02-2006, 02:58 PM
Salaamoulaiakoum,
Okay I cannot say that I'm educated, or knowledgeable, however, I can give you just a little input.Walaikum Salaam,
Alright.

"Love" normally doesn't develop until later in the marriage.If you observe the chronological order in the hadith...you could see that love comes first and marriage follows.

I guess the hadith is talking about a specific group of individuals--Lovers (we are trying to find out what makes two people--lovers).

As for the development of post-marital love...I think that's a totally different realm.

Lust is always that initial physical attraction.I don't agree about lust always rooting from physical attraction. It is possible for a person to get attracted to someone without actually seeing them.
Ex. Internet romance--A person could be talking to someone without really having the intention of searching a partner...and for some reason may develop a liking for the person they are conversing with...and...Voila!...The budding of attraction (which in some cases can develop into imaginitive lust).

Something to be pointed out about E-romance:
The actual physical meeting of the two attracted could make the love or break it. In other words, when these two meet in real life...their love may or may not continue depending upon the magnitude of physical attraction present between them, and the amount of significance they both attach to it (physical attraction).
So! Yes--physical attraction can be a component of the budding of lust...but in some cases its not totally it!

I suggest you read Ibn Hazm's The Ring of the Dove (http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/hazm/dove/ringdove.html)...He discusses the various ways people fall in 'love'* (*thats what he calls it)

Usually with lust, comes love...With lust comes love...does it really?

Hmm...I guess that's what we are trying to find out here. Is it best to define the Love in the hadith as physical attraction (i.e. lust-->Love at first sight?) or should it be defined as something else?

Sirius1
12-02-2006, 03:02 PM
asalaamu `alaikum sister;)

have you tried islamqa? also there are other websites that answer quickly. i would like to know the answer also.
Walaikum Salaam sister :),

No I haven't tried it. From past experience--I usually don't have much success with websites...So I think forums are the best place...knowledgeable people with different viewpoints enlighten you!

Also, I think this is more of a discussion question than a fatwa one...but there is no harm in trying to post it at a fatwa website.

*Aasiyah*
12-02-2006, 08:27 PM
Walaikum Salaam sister :),

No I haven't tried it. From past experience--I usually don't have much success with websites...So I think forums are the best place...knowledgeable people with different viewpoints enlighten you!

Also, I think this is more of a discussion question than a fatwa one...but there is no harm in trying to post it at a fatwa website.
ws, islamqa is not necessarily ONLY a fatwa website. it just anwers whatever questions you have related to islam. it also does the research for you if you asked for a tafseer of a hadith or ayat. plus, the shaykh is really qualified mashaAllah. the view point is based on Quran and Sunnah. really...try it! it has an opening once a month though. i'll even check and see right now. subhanaAllah, there are many cases related to this thread topic :( there are some marriages that suffer at least once with this issue, scary! (based on observation).

Sirius1
12-02-2006, 08:32 PM
Sure it can be tried...but let's keep this discussion going...inshaAllah...

Salaam

*Aasiyah*
12-02-2006, 08:36 PM
ws,
also, as students of knowledge, we realise that when understanding a tafseer, we refer to other hadith and ayat to be complementary in a well rounded understanding of an ayat or hadith. we also take the commentary from the sahahbis and the scholars durring those times of the three best generations. perhaps this involves more research in figuring out which is the stronger opinion of the two correct opinions. ok, back to searching...

Sirius1
12-02-2006, 08:49 PM
Yes...I agree with you...I was hoping someone with more knowledge about this topic would post more opinions/hadith/interpretation regarding it...that was the whole point of starting this thread and that's the reason I posted interpretation of scholars (as opposed to interpreting it myself/or asking other people to interpret it). InshaAllah, someone here with more knowledge will post more...

*Aasiyah*
12-02-2006, 09:19 PM
ws, we agree to agree. and alhamdulillah i understand. we also realise there are people here who could misunderstand what you meant by a discussion, and sharing of view points where people might get philosophical and make up the deen, na`uthu billah! i know u weren't trying to make up your own interpretations and ask for other people to make up their own tafseer, lol. o, quick response yar, by the way:)

back to the discussion though. i was reading an ayat and its tafseer. i am trying to figure out if love is quarantined in marriage and not outside even though the hadith you mentioned might be understood by some that love is before marriage.

Sirius1
12-09-2006, 06:05 PM
Could the marriage of the Prophet (sa) and Khadijah (ra) be an example of what Ibn Hazm is claiming...Prolonged exposure is required in order for people to fall in love?

Sirius1
12-09-2006, 06:28 PM
Would the marriage of the Prophet (sa) and Zaynab bint Jahsh be an example of what is described in the first opinion...invoking of desire due to an accidental/unintentional glance?

Just as an aside: Prophet (sa) did watch Zaynab grow up, as she was his cousin ... so this may not completely be love at first sight?

Yaser Birjas
12-12-2006, 02:40 PM
This statement from Rasulullah salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam was given in response to a question which required advice.
When a guardian of a female orphan was approached with two proposals at the same time… one came from a rich man and the other came from a less fortunate man. The guardian had inclination towards the rich one obviously hoping to give the young orphan some of what she missed in life; the young orphan however, was inclining towards the other man, obviously for qualities she couldn’t find in the rich man.

What did she find in the poor man that she admired that made her prefer him over a rich and wealthy man? Definitely, it was not his poverty, but something else we cannot describe clearly because it will always remain a secret of this creation…Love or a certain degree of love.

Once you're engaged in a legal relationship you're obligated to work it out to the best of your ability and ask Allah for his guidance.
It is up to you to increase love or decrease it depending on your attitude and the way you lead your marital life. Yes indeed Love is an action but Love by all means is not equal to lust.

After that; life becomes a new testing ground… to have love for more than one person in this life is possible, falling into a non-reciprocate love relation is possible as well. But to use this hadith to justify infidelity or breaking marital relations just like that because of love…now that is a big test for those who fall under this category.

Sirius1
12-12-2006, 04:10 PM
Jazakallah Shaykh Yaser.

After that; life becomes a new testing ground… to have love for more than one person in this life is possible, falling into a non-reciprocate love relation is possible as well. But to use this hadith to justify infidelity or breaking marital relations just like that because of love…now that is a big test for those who fall under this category.I had an additional question regarding the bolded part. I have read that Zaynab bint Jahsh had wanted to marry the the Prophet (sa) but due to the Prophet's (sa) request she ended up marrying Zayd ibn Harith. But in the end their marriage ended in divorce and the Prophet (sa) and Zaynab (ra) ended up getting married (upon Allah's Revelation). To my understanding, Zaynab (ra) had also used the Prophet's (sa) attraction (change of heart) toward her, as a reason to obtain divorce from Zayd, who was glad to divorce her, as their marriage was not working out.

So from what I understand, it seems that it would not be a sin if one ends up breaking marital relations because of love for another person.

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. I'm trying to understand how far one could go using love as a reason. Thats all.

Also, if you could please shed some light on the two opinions posted on the beginning of this thread (post #2 and #3) that is related to what the "love" the hadith "There is nothing for two who love one another like marriage" means it will be really appreciated.

Jazakallah Khair.