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asyed
02-12-2007, 09:04 PM
My list below is from the NY class. I miss Honsa, but Tayyba aint bad.

Top Reasons Sisters Delay Their Marriages:

Note: the X’s means the number of times this reason or one similar to it was repeated, may not be accurate.

a. Parents (in one way or an another) XXXXXXXX

b. Feel the need to Finish School XXXXXXXX

c. Not Financially Ready (I thought this was a guy reason? Maybe she means her father cant afford the expensive desi shadi yet. Allahu Alam)

d. Lack of Compatible, Financially Stable, Serious, Mature, Clean, Ready brothers XXXXXXXX

e. Insecurity (of what?)

f. No Halal Social Network XXXXXXXX

g. Ignorance of the deen

h. Fear of Commitment/ Not Ready to Give up Freedom XXXX (this one was shocking… at least to me)

i. Scared of Being Controlled (kinda like the one above)

j. Haven’t Found “the 1” X

k. Family History XX

l. Fear of Not Being an Ideal Wife

m. Fear of Failure in Marriage

n. Not Ready for Children (this one was shocking… at least to me)

o. Scared of Household Responsibilities

p. Scared of Mother in-Law

q. Fear of Sharing Bathroom with a Boy (Yes, they said boy not MAN)

Faizan
02-12-2007, 09:18 PM
Abdullah you got to attend both fiqh of love(with me in hosna) and love notes!.... or did you? kheir i will catch up to you insha'Allah

ZkrofAllah
02-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Subhan'Allah i almost died of laughter reading that list! Where did you find it?

spana3rabia
02-12-2007, 09:32 PM
hey this is not a laughing matter. hahahah.

Faizan
02-12-2007, 09:33 PM
stop laughing at us men... most of us are very clean.... i promise

spana3rabia
02-12-2007, 09:35 PM
why am i not surprisde that parents and feel the need to finish school were the top reasons. hmmmmm. what a mystery.
oh right and lack of compatible, and CLEAN brothers. HAH.

Umm Salma
02-12-2007, 10:21 PM
c. Not Financially Ready (I thought this was a guy reason? Maybe she means her father cant afford the expensive desi shadi yet. Allahu Alam)

e. Insecurity (of what?)

h. Fear of Commitment/ Not Ready to Give up Freedom XXXX (this one was shocking… at least to me)

n. Not Ready for Children (this one was shocking… at least to me)

I just wanted to make comments about the ones you were shocked or confused by (since I was once single).

For the first one, I can understand. It usually is a guy reason, because they're the ones who are supposed to provide for the wife and family. But some men and women have already decided on their chosen spouse, and they know that the other person is not financially ready, so they themselves want to be financially ready in case they need to help provide. Well, that's just my assumption.

For (c), I myself was very insecure and still am, and I think the reasoning behind that is that a woman wants to be good for their husbands in cases like cleaning, cooking, or appearance-wise, and so they feel insecure. It can also be attached to "afraid to share a bathroom with a boy." That plays into insecurity.

For the fear of commitment one, I can understand how they feel... to an extent. The reason being is that I like to have dinner with my friends or go to events with my girl-friends, and sometimes husbands can request their wives to be home at a certain time or not allow them to go at all. So maybe this is the reason being.

The not ready for children one is not surprising to me because I'm sure many women feel that they are not ready to bear children, or even take care of children. Allahu a'alam... if it was meant to be, it will happen. I guess guys will never understand this one.

I hope that shed a little light. I may be wrong, as I'm only giving one side of the story. There may be other explanations to this, but that's what I know.

Memoona
02-12-2007, 10:30 PM
Brothers Reasons for Delaying marriage*:

1) Because of their Parents (in some way or another)

2) Financial Stability

3) Education

4) Scared of commitment & responsibility; they want their freedom

5) No Halal way of finding good sisters

6) Waiting for older siblings to get married

7) Islamic Ignorance

8) Lack of Tawakkul

9) Fear of having children

10) Visa Issues

*The first 5 are in order of the top five reasons after that there is no specific order

Memoona
02-12-2007, 10:36 PM
What was surprising/shocking and interesting to me is that the number one reason (according to my numbers) for brothers delaying their marriage is because of their parents in one way or another.

I can understand how parents (or specifically the father) can get in the way of his daughter getting married because she needs his permission.

But the brothers don't necessarily need their parents permission (though I know what the shaykh said about getting their blessing and all).

But if it is such a big issue can't the brothers step it to their parents, in a respectful way of course.

HiBz EsSenSe ©
02-12-2007, 10:36 PM
My list below is from the NY class. I miss Honsa, but Tayyba aint bad.Typo: Its Spelled Tayybah
2nd, aint bad? Can you please send your positive & negative feedback to NYalmaghrib@gmail.com (NYalmaghrib@gmail.com) - We would really appreciate it, Jazakullahu Khairun

asyed
02-12-2007, 10:43 PM
What was surprising/shocking and interesting to me is that the number one reason (according to my numbers) for brothers delaying their marriage is because of their parents in one way or another.

I can understand how parents (or specifically the father) can get in the way of his daughter getting married because she needs his permission.

But the brothers don't necessarily need their parents permission (though I know what the shaykh said about getting their blessing and all).

But if it is such a big issue can't the brothers step it to their parents, in a respectful way of course.Step it to their Parents!?? I know at least I cannot. Men are just as afraid of making their parents mad as sisters are. We (bros) love, respect, fear (to a degree) parents as much as or more than the sisters.

Especially in desi culture, most mothers are like... "You better not find your own wife. I will veto your selection. You better let me find potential wives and then you can give your opinion"

So guys respect that and they want to please their mothers.

Al Baraa
02-13-2007, 06:48 AM
Brothers Reasons for Delaying marriage*:

2) Financial Stability

This is understandable. Wut sis wants to live wit a guy who lives off of $500 month, and is never home (school, work, projects-work related)...



4) Scared of commitment & responsibility; they want their freedom

I dont know about 'scared', but the freedom aspect is HUGE. Being able to do and go without being held back by some lady is beautiful. I think it adds to ones productivity...being free that is.

Plus at the end of the day when the guy gets home...its 9 or 10 pm...time to sleep, the worst thing would be to have a chatterbox lady keep him up for another few hours. -- -- its understandable if the guy dont like his work, and comes home to make up for the 10 hrs he wasted at work, but the guy that loves his job and school...wut more does he need :D

Al Baraa
02-13-2007, 07:02 AM
But if it is such a big issue can't the brothers step it to their parents, in a respectful way of course.I can imagine the senerio:Son: "Dad, I think its time I got married."

Dad: "Youv'e got 20 years till you graduate, fast for another 20 years!"

Son: "Comon dad, thas not cool."

Dad: "You think you're ready to stand up?"

Son: "Yea"

Dad: "Okay, just a moment"

...a moment later...

Dad: "Okay...here you go. Phone bill, car payment bill, cell phone bill, internet bill, college tuition bill....oh and starting today you ahve to may rent. You can add another $750 a month onto that. That comes out to a grand total of....$3,000 a month. :D -- oh and you can double that for the beautiful wify youd like to marry. So thats...about...$6,000 a month!

Son: "........."

Dad: "Congradulations...ur a man now!"

Son: "...but..........unh....comon....help a brotha out"

Dad: "Im not ur brother....im ur father. Good luck! :D"

Al Baraa
02-13-2007, 07:13 AM
Its funny how when it comes to marriage people have this misconception about the reality of it. A once divorced brother gives his remarks about marriage...

He said something along the lines of:"They think they make the rules, b/c they dont follow yours. They dont tell u when when they change the rules on you. To top it off its impossible to know what the rules are to begin with. They just expect u to KNOW! and if u really do get to know some of the rules and how she thinks SHE decides to change! and then has the nerve to tell me that im wrong as if shes always right and expects me to apoligize!!

if i change my mind...im wrong and she things its her RIGHT to be upset at me!! wut do i DO? wut can i do....only choice i have is to remain calm and patient at all times..its the only way...to think clearly and try to figure out what she meant...as opposed to what she said and if...i ever do realize wut she meant....and do the right thing...and say the right thing....shes always right....automatically making me wrong!"
Lol...im sure plenty of brothers can do without that :P

bedou
02-13-2007, 09:42 AM
"Parents" as a reason doesn't necessarily mean that the parental units are unwilling to let their child get married. For many, taking the parents' thoughts/views/inclinations into consideration when choosing a spouse can lead to a potential spouse to be crossed off the list.

This is especially true in families in which the children have seen the previous generation's relationships ripped apart due to "outside" influence which just didn't gel with the family.

It's definitely a tough act to balance, but tawakkul is key in this phase of life.

Hala
02-13-2007, 10:08 AM
Tayybah, you guys crack me up. It sounds like you guys had a funny session of Love Notes...gets me all the more excited for April!
If I coulda taken it in NY, I would have. Our cowtown is just too far away from the big apple.

Hala
02-13-2007, 10:12 AM
"Parents" as a reason doesn't necessarily mean that the parental units are unwilling to let their child get married. For many, taking the parents' thoughts/views/inclinations into consideration when choosing a spouse can lead to a potential spouse to be crossed off the list.

This is especially true in families in which the children have seen the previous generation's relationships ripped apart due to "outside" influence which just didn't gel with the family.

It's definitely a tough act to balance, but tawakkul is key in this phase of life.I agree with this post 100%, I was going to say the same thing. It doesn't necessarily mean your parents don't want you to get married, it could mean that sh/he's just waiting for the person who fits every expectation the parents have...which could sometimes take a loooong time.

Umm Salma
02-13-2007, 03:25 PM
As for the problem of parentals... if you have a local shaykh or imam, just go to them and ask them if they could help you out... get a good word out there for ya. Outcomes are that your parents are likely to listen to their advice rather than the son's. Just an idea...

Its funny how when it comes to marriage people have this misconception about the reality of it. A once divorced brother gives his remarks about marriage...

He said something along the lines of:"They think they make the rules, b/c they dont follow yours. They dont tell u when when they change the rules on you. To top it off its impossible to know what the rules are to begin with. They just expect u to KNOW! and if u really do get to know some of the rules and how she thinks SHE decides to change! and then has the nerve to tell me that im wrong as if shes always right and expects me to apoligize!!

if i change my mind...im wrong and she things its her RIGHT to be upset at me!! wut do i DO? wut can i do....only choice i have is to remain calm and patient at all times..its the only way...to think clearly and try to figure out what she meant...as opposed to what she said and if...i ever do realize wut she meant....and do the right thing...and say the right thing....shes always right....automatically making me wrong!"
Lol...im sure plenty of brothers can do without that :PInshaAllah... Ruhma will have a solution to situations like this. Coming soon, inshaAllah...

Memoona
02-13-2007, 08:19 PM
I was happy to see that brothers were mashaAllah mature enough to realize that they need to be financially independent before they get married. i have seen so many brothers approaching sisters while they only have part time jobs.(i mean, what were they thinking that she will provide 50% financial support?) we aint ready for thatMaybe they wanted to put the sister on "reserve"? ;)

Memoona
02-13-2007, 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by bedou
"Parents" as a reason doesn't necessarily mean that the parental units are unwilling to let their child get married. For many, taking the parents' thoughts/views/inclinations into consideration when choosing a spouse can lead to a potential spouse to be crossed off the list.

This is especially true in families in which the children have seen the previous generation's relationships ripped apart due to "outside" influence which just didn't gel with the family.

It's definitely a tough act to balance, but tawakkul is key in this phase of life.

Originally Posted by Hala.
I agree with this post 100%, I was going to say the same thing. It doesn't necessarily mean your parents don't want you to get married, it could mean that sh/he's just waiting for the person who fits every expectation the parents have...which could sometimes take a loooong time.That's the situation I meant in my post. By step it to their parents, I don't mean arguing and fighting. But if the mother has been to the house of 15 girls and both mother ans son don't agree about even one. At this point shouldn't her son be a bit more firm in what he wants and talk to her about it as a man, openly and direct, always maintaing a respective attitude and demeanor. (That's what I meant by step it to their parents) and as some one else said, get a local imam, get all the help you can, your father, sisters, brothers, a local shaykh, etc.


And Allah Knows best

mahin
02-13-2007, 08:40 PM
Step it to their Parents!?? I know at least I cannot. Men are just as afraid of making their parents mad as sisters are. We (bros) love, respect, fear (to a degree) parents as much as or more than the sisters.

Especially in desi culture, mothers are like... "You better not find your own wife. I will veto your selection. You better let me find your spouse."

So guys respect that and they want to please their mothers.

Yeah...but you have to push the envelope in my opinion...sometimes moms be tripping but you just gotta be persistent...and bring your daleels.

Ammar AlShukry
02-13-2007, 08:48 PM
Yeah...but you have to push the envelope in my opinion...sometimes moms be tripping but you just gotta be persistent...and bring your daleels.
So eloquent and gently stated Mahin...May Allah bless you :)

SiBgha_z
02-13-2007, 09:52 PM
the worst thing would be to have a chatterbox lady keep him up for another few hours. -- -- its understandable if the guy dont like his work, and comes home to make up for the 10 hrs he wasted at work, but the guy that loves his job and school...wut more does he need :D
You mean the same Chatterbox lady who is anxiously awaiting his arrival becuase she hasn't seem him all day, the one who cooked and cleaned and made herself all pretty..for him!...But wait a minute. U r right. It probably isn't worth it for someone who just loves his school and job. Now I know what sisters mean when they say they want a mature and responsible brother.

Its funny how when it comes to marriage people have this misconception about the reality of it. A once divorced brother gives his remarks about marriage...



He said something along the lines of: "They think they make the rules, b/c they dont follow yours. They dont tell u when when they change the rules on you. To top it off its impossible to know what the rules are to begin with. They just expect u to KNOW! ....automatically making me wrong!"
Lol...im sure plenty of brothers can do without that :P
One of the beauties of this lecture was they was Shaykh explained Psychology of men and women. It portrayed how women can be moody and stubborn at times, but men aren't the easiest to live with either. It's a give & take relationship. But women give so much and spoil their husbands that the latter take them for granted and stop appreciating them for who they are.

HiBz EsSenSe ©
02-13-2007, 09:58 PM
You mean the same Chatterbox lady who is anxiously awaiting his arrival becuase she hasn't seem him all day, the one who cooked and cleaned and made herself all pretty..for him!...But wait a minute. U r right. It probably isn't worth it for someone who just loves his school and job. Now I know what sisters mean when they say they want a mature and responsible brother.


One of the beauties of this lecture was they was Shaykh explained Psychology of men and women. It portrayed how women can be moody and stubborn at times, but men aren't the easiest to live with either. It's a give & take relationship. But women give so much and spoil their husbands that the latter take them for granted and stop appreciating them for who they are.BaraqaAllahu Feeky, SubhanAllah Marriage is a Beautiful thing, its about love, mercy, and tranquility - BUT One can't earn all that if they gotta closed minded way of approaching it. Men & Women are different, Thats the beauty of it, to deal with those differences with patience and through the sunnah of our beloved, sallahAllahu aleyhi wasalam.. making tha outcome of those differences- DELIGHTFUL (& full of Baraqah might I add)

Then again, like you said, it takes a "REAL" BROTHER/SISTER to be willing to do that - Allahul Musta'an

sincerequestioner
02-13-2007, 10:00 PM
You mean the same Chatterbox lady who is anxiously awaiting his arrival becuase she hasn't seem him all day, the one who cooked and cleaned and made herself all pretty..for him!...But wait a minute. U r right. It probably isn't worth it for someone who just loves his school and job. Now I know what sisters mean when they say they want a mature and responsible brother.


One of the beauties of this lecture was they was Shaykh explained Psychology of men and women. It portrayed how women can be moody and stubborn at times, but men aren't the easiest to live with either. It's a give & take relationship. But women give so much and spoil their husbands that the latter take them for granted and stop appreciating them for who they are.
MaashaAllah,well said.You just spoke my mind.I wonder if men can aprreciate women as much as they deserve to be appreciated.If we try to be like Aaishah,Hafsah,the wives of the prophets[read about them]cant they at least try to be like the prophet?

HiBz EsSenSe ©
02-13-2007, 10:06 PM
MaashaAllah,well said.You just spoke my mind.I wonder if men can aprreciate women as much as they deserve to be appreciated.If we try to be like Aaishah,Hafsah,the wives of the prophets[read about them]cant they at least try to be like the prophet?You know thats what i was thinking during the class, Shaykh Yasir kept saying,
"Sister's want brothers to act like a Prophet but can they be like the Mother of Believers"

- But SubhanAllah, Some of us are trying to live up to Just that - May Allah AazaWajal grant all of us (Sr's & Br's alike) pious spouses that will InshaAllah bring us closer to the Sunnah of the Prophet sallahAllahu aleyhi wasalam, & cause us to earn the pleasure of Allah Aazawajal in our lives & offspring .. Allahuma Ameen

ZkrofAllah
02-13-2007, 10:34 PM
You mean the same Chatterbox lady who is anxiously awaiting his arrival becuase she hasn't seem him all day, the one who cooked and cleaned and made herself all pretty..for him!...But wait a minute. U r right. It probably isn't worth it for someone who just loves his school and job. Now I know what sisters mean when they say they want a mature and responsible brother.You tell 'em like it is sista!

Yeah its not nice to call anyone a Chatterbox, cuz in return they might call you a 'drumstick' <dont ask why> :) not nice brother, not nice!

I want to see how colorful your life would be if it wasn't for us "chatterbox."

Melody
02-13-2007, 10:38 PM
Bismillah

Men & Women are different, Thats the beauty of it, to deal with those differences with patience and through the sunnah of our beloved, sallahAllahu aleyhi wasalam.. making tha outcome of those differences- DELIGHTFUL (& full of Baraqah might I add) Yup.

Honestly, I think it is a lack of communication we have with our parents. They have soo much experience and we don't take advantage of their tremendous knowledge when it comes to dealing with life experiences that insha'Allah we all shall have the opportunity to embark on, bi’dnillah!

It's not a battle ... why does it have to be a competition?
It's important to know that when you come into a marriage, the two spouses come in accustomed to their previous lifestyles ... which is why in the beginning it may be fun and games, but at the same time is a learning experience, and a lot of “getting used to”... getting to know your spouse and accepting them for who they are. And instead of competition, it’s a respect for one another and the differences that they bring to make a more humbling companionship.

May Allah AazaWajal grant all of us (Sr's & Br's alike) pious spouses that will InshaAllah bring us closer to the Sunnah of the Prophet sallahAllahu aleyhi wasalam, & cause us to earn the pleasure of Allah Aazawajal in our lives & offspring .. Allahuma Ameen AMEEN! :D



*Nota Bene: I have 3 brothers* ;)

HiBz EsSenSe ©
02-13-2007, 11:27 PM
It's not a battle ... why does it have to be a competition? Shaykh YB mentioned "we are different not to COMPETE w/ One Another, But to COMPLETE one another!" <-- GEM

SiBgha_z
02-13-2007, 11:30 PM
Bismillah

It's not a battle ... why does it have to be a competition?
It's important to know that when you come into a marriage, the two spouses come in accustomed to their previous lifestyles ... which is why in the beginning it may be fun and games, but at the same time is a learning experience, and a lot of “getting used to”... getting to know your spouse and accepting them for who they are. And instead of competition, it’s a respect for one another and the differences that they bring to make a more humbling companionship.



MashaAllah well said Mel!

Marriage is SO much more than just pointing fingers at each other & blaming em for taking their nice and easy, fun fulfilled life away.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 08:28 AM
You mean the same Chatterbox lady who is anxiously awaiting his arrival becuase she hasn't seem him all day, the one who cooked and cleaned and made herself all pretty..for him!...But wait a minute. U r right. It probably isn't worth it for someone who just loves his school and job. Now I know what sisters mean when they say they want a mature and responsible brother."...made herself all pretty"...haha. yea right. How many continue doing that past the 1st few weeks of marriage? Guys quicky realize that when lady dont have to leave the home, her hair will look something that come out of an explosion from the brillo factory :P

Lets look at the reality here people. Most sisters dont have a clue as to how the guy functions. no sensible guy wants to hear a lady complaining to him late at night. -- this is why those ppl whose passion is thier work, dont care about coming home.

Ill say one thing...If the work that one does is something that they love and are passionate about...its truly a ni'ma from Allah (swt). A spouse that is kind, appreciative, good charactered, and on the deen is also a ni'ma from Allah (swt)...

The difference between a spouse and work is that, what type of work one does, they have control over it. Its a choice they make and they can take the bull by the horns in this arena....

...the type of spouse one gets...well. As Sh Yasir said in FOL, if you get a wife that is on the deen, you're lucky. If you get a wife that's on the deen and is content with what she has...that is the gold mine...you are then VERY lucky.

Its difficult to tell if an individual is truly religious on the inside, and its nearly impossible to tell if the individual is content with what Allah (swt) has given them...thus its not really in ones control to be able to get a wife that is truly on the deen and/or content with what she has.

No offence ladies, but most guys who have a passion (work) in life would rather not deal with having such an individual in thier home if they dont have to :D

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 10:36 AM
Lets look at the reality here people. Most sisters dont have a clue as to how the guy functions. no sensible guy wants to hear a lady complaining to him late at night. -- this is why those ppl whose passion is thier work, dont care about coming home.
OK we are assuming almost everyone here has taken either FoL or LN. Therefore inshaAllah they also know how a brother's mind works and how a sister's mind works. I'm not saying both genders have each other figured out completely... But you can't keep generalizing and showing portraying how your work keeps you sane and the one at home does everything she can to do otherwise.

Ill say one thing...If the work that one does is something that they love and are passionate about...its truly a ni'ma from Allah (swt). A spouse that is kind, appreciative, good charactered, and on the deen is also a ni'ma from Allah (swt)...
http://forums.almaghrib.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

The [b]difference between a spouse and work is that, what type of work one does, they have control over it. Its a choice they make and they can take the bull by the horns in this arena....
So the typical mentality of control kicks in huh. Yes wives have to be obedient to their husbands and usually are the ones to compromise somewhat more than the husbands. HOwever, if your mentality is to have control over her like you have control over your work, I'm sure even Sh YB would disagree with you.

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 10:36 AM
Another follow up question, i have seen so many 'practicing' brothers marrying sisters who are not religious at all. Maybe brothers can shed some light on logic behind it.
I think Someone asked the Shaykh this question. Does anyone know what he said?

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 11:03 AM
thats exactly why you should marry a hijabi :) who will beautify herself only for her husband and not for every tom dick and harry in the street.Plz...ur telling me that hijaabis dont go all out on thier setup? hah!


Another follow up question, i have seen so many 'practicing' brothers marrying sisters who are not religious at all. Maybe brothers can shed some light on logic behind it.There is a sociological grouping of sisters:

no-jabi: Dont wear hijab. Just like all the other nonMuslim women. Includes women that dress modestly without headscarf or dress provacatively without headscarf.


ho-jabi: Dress like the nonMuslim (provacative type, skin-tight cloths, t-shirts during summer), but with a scarf on the head.


G-jabi: "Gangsta hijab", these are the sisters from the ghetto, or wanna be ghetto. They got the tomboy look. Baggy jeans, hoodies, ...and head scarf.


hijabi: dresses modestly with a headscarf


Jilbabi: Basically wears the jalabiyyah, and headscarf.


Ninja-bi: basically your burqa and niqaab wearing sisters.

We discussed "thats exactly why you should marry a hijabi". Note that A sister can be in any one of those sociological catagories and have the typical fallouts:

character and integrity
contentness
deen...
...deen isnt only the outer appearance. Does she pray 5x a day? Does she obey her parents, does she fast, etc. Hijab is a small part and important small part...for most guys alteast, but no the be all end all.

Also...a sister can belong to any of those sociological catagories, but still be your typical jaw dropping bombshell when outside of the house (either via makeup, perfume, dress, etc), and a brillo factory worker at home...

...thus marrying a 'hijabi' doenst mean anything.



So the typical mentality of control kicks in huh. Yes wives have to be obedient to their husbands and usually are the ones to compromise somewhat more than the husbands. HOwever, if your mentality is to have control over her like you have control over your work, I'm sure even Sh YB would disagree with you.Control in the sense that as an individual I have the choice to continue with it. For example:

If I dont like my job, or career, or the work I'm doing, or the business sector I'm in, I can simply change that by getting a different job, career, starting a different business, etc.

If I dont like my wife...I can't just simply get another one. Well...I can, but then thats asking for disaster and 2x the headache. I cant just leave her...well i can, but that's just wrong....

...get what I'm saying?

Sirius1
02-14-2007, 11:09 AM
...thus marrying a 'hijabi' doenst mean anything. That was an offensive remark. Please don't downplay the hijabi sisters. Perhaps you mean...marrying a 'hijabi' doesn't mean everything.

Taken to its end, the comment is saying something like...'Marrying a Muslim doesn't mean anything...you never know their private beliefs/life.'

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 11:22 AM
That was an offensive remark. Please don't downplay the hijabi sisters. Perhaps you mean...marrying a 'hijabi' doesn't mean everything.

Taken to its extreme, its saying something like...'Marrying a Muslim doesn't mean anything...you never know their private beliefs/life.'I'm sorry. I wasn't downplaying the hijaabi sisters. If a sister wears hijab (not just the head scarf, rather following all the principals that entail 'hijaab', she is obeying Allah and His Messenger (saw). When I said "Hijaabi" i was reffering to the sociological catagory i posted earlier.

Perhaps I should rephrase...

...Choosing to marry somone based on the fact that they wear hijaab isn't a very good way of choosing a potential spouse. There are other factors that are much deeper than the outer appearence that matter MUCH more (not that the outer appearance doesn't matter). Those deeper factors are very difficult to determine...

Haha...this thread title should be changed to "Why NOT to get married" :P

Sirius1
02-14-2007, 11:28 AM
...Choosing to marry somone based on the fact that they wear hijaab isn't a very good way of choosing a potential spouse. There are other factors that are much deeper than the outer appearence that matter MUCH more (not that the outer appearance doesn't matter). Those deeper factors are very difficult to determine...Agreed. Its just like choosing to marry a guy, based on his beard, only. Not a good idea.

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 11:34 AM
Control in the sense that as an individual I have the choice to continue with it. For example:

If I dont like my job, or career, or the work I'm doing, or the business sector I'm in, I can simply change that by getting a different job, career, starting a different business, etc.

If I dont like my wife...I can't just simply get another one. Well...I can, but then thats asking for disaster and 2x the headache. I cant just leave her...well i can, but that's just wrong....

...get what I'm saying?
Yes I do, but my point is there should be a compromise from both sides. In light of your posts, wives present such a headache to their husbands that a brother is just better off without one unless he finds "the one"
[the one=his fantasy materialized]

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 11:52 AM
Yes I do, but my point is there should be a compromise from both sides. In light of your posts, wives present such a headache to their husbands that a brother is just better off without one unless he finds "the one"
[the one=his fantasy materialized]idk about "the one"...

...for most guys, the advantage of marriage is the whole aspect of intamacy, which is the physical drive and motivator for many men to get married. Everything else that comes with marriage is a responsibilty and burden upon the guy, and not an easy burden as I can tell based on the experiences of other bros i know. That coupled with the headache of the wife herself...

...If a guy dont get married, the only thing he got left is the whole physical drive to deal with, which can easily be taken care by keeping busy. When that 'busy' is a productive busy and a busy that he LOVES to do...there really isnt much to look forward to in a marriage.

People talk about "companionship" -- one can get that from close family, friends, and siblings.

People talk about "having kids" -- if a guy REALLY wants a kid...there are plenty of orphans that need raising. If he wants to really help the orphans...start an orphanage or something.

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 12:02 PM
People talk about "companionship" -- one can get that from close family, friends, and siblings.

People talk about "having kids" -- if a guy REALLY wants a kid...there are plenty of orphans that need raising. If he wants to really help the orphans...start an orphanage or something.
I'm sure if the above ideas were better than getting married, then we would have seen JUST THAT in the Prophets [salalahu 'alaihee wasSalam's] sunnah.

It seems like you are passing judgement based on other brothers' marriages. There are some really beautiful marriages out there where the husband and wife actually become a shining example and motivation for others to become married and work on it while enjoying it too.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 12:13 PM
I'm sure if the above ideas were better than getting married, then we would have seen JUST THAT in the Prophets [salalahu 'alaihee wasSalam's] sunnah.Its taught in the sunnah that if a guy cannot or will not fulfill the rights of the woman, whether it be emotional, financial, educational, etc...its best that he NOT get married. Some say it'd downright wrong.

For some guys that really cant take it anymore, and thier physical drives are driving them nuts, and as a result may or maynot be turning to things like pornography on late night internet and/or masterbation (This is a harsh reality amoungst a large number of MUSLIM brothers from high school to the grown adults)...for them its best to get married asap.

...and for the guy that is in both situtations...meaning cannot fulfill the rights, and hes goin nuts...well...i feel bad for him -- he just gotta try to keep it cool on the haraam stuff untill his situtation improves.

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 12:21 PM
Its taught in the sunnah that if a guy cannot or will not fulfill the rights of the woman, whether it be emotional, financial, educational, etc...its best that he NOT get married. Some say it'd downright wrong.
That clarifies it. Ofcourse if one doesn't have the ability then it is best to not get married.

But when one does get married it's best not to go with the chatterbox-headache-giver wife mentality.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 12:21 PM
lol...this thread is the opposite of the gems thread :P

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 12:24 PM
But when one does get married it's best not to go with the chatterbox-headache-giver wife mentality.Its best that they realize that is what they are getting into, and not be suprized that two months into the marriage they have a migraine the size of Texas...

...I think most sensible guys that realize this take the productive passionate work route (this is my opinnoin)

mutawakilah
02-14-2007, 12:42 PM
in reply to the 'hijabi' issue, I think that your inner beliefs, ideas, etc should manifest themselves physically(such as a person's clothing). So... in other words every hijabi may not be a great muslimah, but a great muslimah should be a hijabi (in the correct manner).
do you see my point?:-)

ZkrofAllah
02-14-2007, 12:44 PM
Its best that they realize that is what they are getting into, and not be suprized that two months into the marriage they have a migraine the size of Texas...

...I think most sensible guys that realize this take the productive passionate work route (this is my opinnoin)
Brother there is this need- a need the "size of Texas" if not bigger-- a need for you to listen to the Fiqh of Love cd set!

http://www.ilmquest.org/pc-377-186-fiqh-of-love-15-cd-set-by-yaser-birjas.aspx

If you were a sister- i would mail it to you myself.. but Allah (swt) does everything for a reason!:)

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 12:46 PM
Its best that they realize that is what they are getting into, and not be suprized that two months into the marriage they have a migraine the size of Texas...



Both sides should be pragmatic prior to getting married [eventhough it's hard because you are cloud 9 all the time.]

But you can say the same for women re the migraine. After all, as the Shaykh said "the Husband is the wife's first baby"

I fail to see why you have such extreme bias against women though.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 12:57 PM
Brother there is this need- a need the "size of Texas" if not bigger-- a need for you to listen to the Fiqh of Love cd set!

http://www.ilmquest.org/pc-377-186-fiqh-of-love-15-cd-set-by-yaser-birjas.aspx

If you were a sister- i would mail it to you myself.. but Allah (swt) does everything for a reason!:)
Ive taken the seminar, taken the exam, have the set and have listened through it.

The views that I have are because I took fiqh of love. Before fiqh of love, I thought it was totally the opposite.

Both sides should be pragmatic prior to getting married [eventhough it's hard because you are cloud 9 all the time.] What's cloud 9?


But you can say the same for women re the migraine. After all, as the Shaykh said "the Husband is the wife's first baby"
I think that depends on what kinda guy the lady marries.


I fail to see why you have such extreme bias against women though.
Its not an extreme bias. I'm just stating it for how they are. What people think and precieve, and how the reality is. Then again...this reality is from MY prespective, and has come about b/c of Fiqh of Love -- which I think is a VERY good thing...for me atleast :P

hah! -- that can be my testimonial for fiqh of love. :D

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 01:10 PM
What's cloud 9?
I meant ON cloud 9. Happy go lucky stage..Life is all good typa mentality.

You said:

I think that depends on what kinda guy the lady marries.
and then...

I'm just stating it for how they are. What people think and precieve, and how the reality is.
So give the bro 70 excuses and when it comes to understanding the sister, its just "how they are" http://forum.ymonline.org/images/smilies/confused.gif

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 01:38 PM
So give the bro 70 excuses and when it comes to understanding the sister, its just "how they are" http://forum.ymonline.org/images/smilies/confused.gif70 execuses is great...especially when ur not married to them :D

The 70 execuses doesnt remove the fact that 'thats how they are'...

spana3rabia
02-14-2007, 02:16 PM
wow, subhanAllah...thats all i can say to this thread. haha.

MSalah
02-14-2007, 02:54 PM
As salaamu aleykum wa rahmatulaahi wa barakaatuh

Masha Allah, I read the 1st page of this post and I was like well what ASyed wrote was reasonable. Many a times marriage-age youth have real issues and a good way to understand the situations they are in is to actually take an opinion poll. I commend that really, it was educating to read what are people's thoughts were about marriage.

Subhanal Allah, then somewhere in the middle of the thread I don't know how it happened but it did, our dear brother AlBaraa (may Allah preserve him) got into a fencing match with the sistahs. I think it might have started when AlBaraa read - out loud and in public - the sad memoirs of the divorced brother.

Anyways, at the present time I feel like this thread is on a Fast Track to being locked up unless we stop the baseless arguing/bickering. Cuz frankly, if there are no knowledgeable points or words of wisdom being shared from the notes of [B]Fiqh of Love or Love Notes, it's not worth keeping the thread open.

May Allah bestow on us His mercy, accept of good deeds and protect us from the Hellfire. Wa salal Allahu 'alaa Muhammad wa 'alaa aalihii wa Sahbihii wa salim.

Wa salaamu aleykum
M

ZkrofAllah
02-14-2007, 03:09 PM
Anyways, at the present time I feel like this thread is on a Fast Track to being locked up unless we stop the baseless arguing/bickering. Cuz frankly, if there are no knowledgeable points or words of wisdom being shared from the notes of Fiqh of Love or Love Notes, it's not worth keeping the thread open.


Wa salaamu aleykum
M
I was just about to say that- this thread is soon to be closed. I dont see how any of this is related to Fiqh of Love or Love Notes. - well, its not.

If this is how Brother AlBaraa feels about women- then we should respect his opinion and not try to convince him out of it-- we'll let Allah take care of that, if he wills.

Allahu'alam

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 03:24 PM
Subhanal Allah, then somewhere in the middle of the thread I don't know how it happened but it did, our dear brother AlBaraa (may Allah preserve him) got into a fencing match with the sistahs. I think it might have started when AlBaraa read - out loud and in public - the sad memoirs of the divorced brother.

Anyways, at the present time I feel like this thread is on a Fast Track to being locked up unless we stop the baseless arguing/bickering. Cuz frankly, if there are no knowledgeable points or words of wisdom being shared from the notes of [b]Fiqh of Love or Love Notes, it's not worth keeping the thread open.


Discussion doesn't equal bickering. And neither does trying for someone to see a different POV.
Sorry if you felt this is baseless arguing but we were referencing back to FoL/LN.

WaSalam

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 03:36 PM
Discussion doesn't equal bickering. And neither does trying for someone to see a different POV.
Sorry if you felt this is baseless arguing but we were referencing back to FoL/LN.

WaSalamI second that.

Look at that. Something we agree on :D

Faizan
02-14-2007, 04:22 PM
I second that.

Look at that. Something we agree on :D

Belal stop picking on the sisters... ok only the mean one's is fine..

MSalah
02-14-2007, 04:23 PM
Discussion doesn't equal bickering. And neither does trying for someone to see a different POV. Sorry if you felt this is baseless arguing but we were referencing back to FoL/LN.

WaSalam

Apology accepted. And inshaa Allah, I myself would like to apologize to you and anyone else whom I may have harmed with my words. Please forgive and overlook, may Allah forgive your sins and mine.

The reason(s) I think the thread is degenerating into an argumentative exchange [a he-said she-said kind of thread popular in many other forums on the net] is because no attention is being paid to what was learnt in Fiqh of Love/Love Notes. And as a matter of fact, many of the references made to the class notes and the class material is very superficial and thin in nature.

If we don't focus on what we learnt, we run the risk of helplessly trying to convince other people of our own point's of views without having the right facts and the right methodology on our side (i.e., using proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah, the Sahaabah's statements, statements of the Scholars, and even emprical scienctific data). Remember everyone breaths different psychological oxygen and sees the world with their own special glasses.

So inshaa Allah, I hope you understand were I am coming from when I say, let's make the thread one about what was learnt in class.

Wa salaamu aleykum
M

hassanm
02-14-2007, 04:38 PM
Salaam. Al Baraa, I was reading Rod Johnson's book titled J2EE Development without EJB. Why? Because I never liked EJBs and the whole way it functioned. I am moving towards Spring/Hibernate combination. One of the reason for failed projects in J2EE was "over engineering" which was basic reason of people going to EJBs (prior to EJB 3.0). Over engineering and "over thinking" sometimes is not good. You can not spend too much time in ifs and buts without starting the actual development. The RUP (Rational Unified Process) and eXtreme programing both has development work started early in iterations. And over designing is just waste.

Main point, to everyone, do not over think, over discuss over analyze "marriage and relationship". Just do it. Just get married with best intention, and do your best to find righteous spouse, and leave rest to Allah. If you trust Allah, Allah would not disappoint you.

I appologize for using strange parable, it was just to get Al Baraa attention.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 04:51 PM
Belal stop picking on the sisters... ok only the mean one's is fine..Who's being picked on? I was just stating a comonality after all the opposition that was stated.

hmm, this is scary! how did FOL made you so bias and bitter towards sisters? I'm not bitter and bias towards sisters. I have two of my own and love em very much.

FOL was a reality check for me on different fronts.

rights owed to the wife
the basic psych of a woman
types of women out there...

Salaam. Al Baraa, I was reading Rod Johnson's book titled J2EE Development without EJB. Why? Because I never liked EJBs and the whole way it functioned. I am moving towards Spring/Hibernate combination. One of the reason for failed projects in J2EE was "over engineering" which was basic reason of people going to EJBs (prior to EJB 3.0). Over engineering and "over thinking" sometimes is not good. You can not spend too much time in ifs and buts without starting the actual development. The RUP (Rational Unified Process) and eXtreme programing both has development work started early in iterations. And over designing is just waste.

Main point, to everyone, do not over think, over discuss over analyze "marriage and relationship". Just do it. Just get married with best intention, and do your best to find righteous spouse, and leave rest to Allah. If you trust Allah, Allah would not disappoint you.

I appologize for using strange parable, it was just to get Al Baraa attention. And attention well recieved.

If one thinks about something and overanalysis it, then yes, it can become over developed in ones head. Thats why somone such as myself...chooses not to think about it at all, and do what he LOVES to do.

The reason I continued the comments on this thread in the manner that I did is b/c it has been a very good in brainstorming dialouge for a script im writing...

...Coming to a screening near you...2007 :D

hassanm
02-14-2007, 05:00 PM
hadith of Aisha (ra) when she told the long story about the women talking about thier husbands....and then RasulAllah (saw) commenting back to her as he had paid attention to what she said
Prophet Muhammad PBUH did pay full attention to what she said, and commented to please her.

But I agree its difficult, so what I do with my wife, I nod, smile, and catch few important words, and then re-iterate it somehow differently, and she think I have paid attention. So she gets happy, and I go back to what I was doing, clueless why and what she said. But alhamdulillah we both are happy. (She does not read these forums, so I am clear).

spana3rabia
02-14-2007, 05:04 PM
Prophet Muhammad PBUH did pay full attention to what she said, and commented to please her.

But I agree its difficult, so what I do with my wife, I nod, smile, and catch few important words, and then re-iterate it somehow differently, and she think I have paid attention. So he gets happy, and I go back to what I was doing, clueless why and what she said. But alhamdulillah we both are happy. (She does not read these forums, so I am clear).

reason number 18: men don't listen to their wives.

hassanm
02-14-2007, 05:05 PM
reason number 18: men don't listen to their wives.

Some try sincerely. They should be given credit for the effort.

Sirius1
02-14-2007, 05:06 PM
If we don't focus on what we learnt, we run the risk of helplessly trying to convince other people of our own point's of views without having the right facts and the right methodology on our side (i.e., using proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah, the Sahaabah's statements, statements of the Scholars, and even emprical scienctific data). Remember everyone breaths different psychological oxygen and sees the world with their own special glasses.
Jazakallah for the reminder.

spana3rabia
02-14-2007, 05:07 PM
Some try sincerely.

yet you're encouraging those 'some' to do otherwise...hmmmmm...Allahu A'lam. I was just kidding. I hope men do listen to their wives.
and brothers, dont worry, women dont talk THAT much.

hassanm
02-14-2007, 05:09 PM
yet you're encouraging those 'some' to do otherwise...hmmmmm...Allahu A'lam. I was just kidding. I hope men do listen to their wives.
and brothers, dont worry, women dont talk THAT much.

No I am not, I am telling a work around, till they actually manage to listen completely.

And its not about how much, its about what they talk about.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 05:18 PM
what is it that sisters talk about which you guys dont like?Other ppl, and things that really have no point (yea this can be fuel to the fire...shoot me :P)

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 05:32 PM
How do u know what sisters talk about as u r not married. I was asking a married bro about things that can be irritating coming from a wife.I may not be married, but i do have sisters.

SiBgha_z
02-14-2007, 05:37 PM
Everyone just needs to realize its a relationship where BOTH sides need to compromise. I still can't believe the wife bashing going on, but khair we'll put that to rest. It seems brothers downplay a lot of what they themselves do which wives have to bear. Khair, may Allah help all the brothers & Sisters out there by dealing with it in the correct manner.

Hala
02-14-2007, 05:46 PM
It's really easy to talk about marriage and wifey/hubby rights and stuff when we're not married ;) It's one of those 'easier said than done' topics...so why don't the married ppl who've 'been there and done that' speak up and train the not married ppl? :)
Or...we can go back to the original topic :D
Ameen to the du'as.

Al Baraa
02-14-2007, 05:59 PM
It's really easy to talk about marriage and wifey/hubby rights and stuff when we're not married ;) It's one of those 'easier said than done' topics...so why don't the married ppl who've 'been there and done that' speak up and train the not married ppl? :)
Or...we can go back to the original topic :D
Ameen to the du'as.I was thinking about that...

...What if the married brothers continue to see it as the unmarried brothers do? I'm sure they wont post on here saying that yea it is that way, especially since thier wives are internet savy and probably post on this forum...

...unless of course the guy can withstand the beating from thier spouse.

Faizan
02-14-2007, 06:07 PM
reason number 18: men don't listen to their wives.


lets rephrase that: "men care so much about you they want to solve your problem right away!"


well most of that sentence is true...

TheSonicMufti
02-14-2007, 07:48 PM
the list is totally hilarious...hey this is not a laughing matter. hahahah.

Bint Roots
02-14-2007, 09:25 PM
I really dont want to close the thread so please lets continue to discuss without getting too emotional and saying what we may regret later.

Sirius1
02-14-2007, 11:14 PM
I think marriage helps a person spend his or her time more wisely. If done for the right reasons, it can prevent a person from pointlessly (and disrespectfully) teasing the opposite gender (esp. gals*) on the forums.

One gets to focus on one person (gal*) plus earn Allah's reward simultaneously.

Wallahu Alim. :)

*it could also be guys...but I wanted to post something that is more applicable to this thread.

P.S.: Thank you sr. Bint_Kauther for editing those posts.

hassanm
02-15-2007, 08:08 AM
huh what do brothers talk about? sports , politics and state of ummah?

what is it that sisters talk about which you guys dont like?

Clothes, ornaments, other people (even good and not gheebah), strange incidents and stories (non-relevant in context of something important being talked) etc. But there are things common as well.

This is not to scare brothers off, I mean I am married, and I encourage brothers to get married, and as I said earlier do not talk about marriage, do get married, insha'Allah you would like it.

hassanm
02-15-2007, 08:16 AM
I think marriage helps a person spend his or her time more wisely. If done for the right reasons, it can prevent a person from pointlessly (and disrespectfully) teasing the opposite gender (esp. gals*) on the forums.

One gets to focus on one person (gal*) plus earn Allah's reward simultaneously.

Wallahu Alim. :)

*it could also be guys...but I wanted to post something that is more applicable to this thread.

P.S.: Thank you sr. Bint_Kauther for editing those posts.

With all due respect sister, I been on these forums almost 3 years, and in terms of gender bashing, women bash men 90% of time. You are more than welcome to go over all threads you can find, and there used to be a section called General Discussion, in which people usually posted about marriage etc, its removed now, but it was nothing but men bashing, and ironically few "wanna please women to get married" brothers also used to join and agree with women. There were only few defenders of rights of men (most famous Sasjamal).

Anyway, I do not agree with Al Baraa either in what he is saying, but it may be just a reaction of on overly women favor biased forums.

Al Baraa
02-15-2007, 08:28 AM
..There were only few defenders of rights of men (most famous Sasjamal).
Sas was the man!


Anyway, I do not agree with Al Baraa either in what he is saying, but it may be just a reaction of on overly women favor biased forums.
I dont agree with everything Al Baraa said either, but I must admit...He did make some good discussion points. :D

SiBgha_z
02-15-2007, 09:44 AM
Another reason to delay:

You've found 'the one' and now you are just waiting to 'be ready' to take that leap..that jump which'll change your life..for the better inshaAllah.
But you feel you need to be nudged to take that leap. --> Reason some give for not marrying. Everything is set for them, they aren't just ready.

What do you say to them?

Sirius1
02-15-2007, 02:50 PM
With all due respect sister, I been on these forums almost 3 years, and in terms of gender bashing, women bash men 90% of time. You are more than welcome to go over all threads you can find, and there used to be a section called General Discussion, in which people usually posted about marriage etc, its removed now, but it was nothing but men bashing, and ironically few "wanna please women to get married" brothers also used to join and agree with women. There were only few defenders of rights of men (most famous Sasjamal).

Anyway, I do not agree with Al Baraa either in what he is saying, but it may be just a reaction of on overly women favor biased forums.Brother, I do not know if men really need many defenders, as they have the job of maintaining the women, so that gives them a degree of authority in the family. Authority (if used in the wrong way) delivers offense and provokes defense. So, I feel that’s why a lot of women feel compelled to defend their rights. (I need to take a look at those threads before I really call it ‘men-bashing’)

Now, of course, I am not claiming that men always abuse their authority. I am more speaking from my observations about the nature of ‘defensive’ threads, in general.

I haven’t read the threads that you have indicated, but I guess, women being the awe-inspiringly emotional creatures they are, perhaps need someone to talk to. Perhaps, they are trying to find answers to their questions or perhaps they need reassurance that all men are not the same. It is very likely that they haven’t seen good men in their life. So, they end up talking about what they see…and experience. From what I’ve seen at various places, many women come to seek solutions to their problems. I don’t think they do it for amusement (atleast not the majority of them). If that’s what the forums have allowed in the past, its not right to call it “overly women favor biased forums” Wallahu Alim.

As for Sasjamal, I think I recall a couple of his remarks on a couple of threads in FOL (one has been deleted). He seemed to offer polygyny as a solution to marital conflicts. I found those comments to be more amusing and less defensive, in nature.

Wallahu Alim

Sirius1
02-15-2007, 02:54 PM
**Discussions are good, so long as they are started in a thoughtful manner**

The ends (‘good discussion points’) do not justify the means (unregulated insulting remarks).

Also, egg-pitching =disrespect. One can get suspended from school for doing that to another person. Not a joking matter!

Yusrah Uthman
02-15-2007, 03:23 PM
Wa aleykum as salam wr wb

1. Fear of not being ready mentally
2. Kids
3. Deen must be strong before I tie the knot
4. In-Laws
5. Paper work
6. Moving away from family
7. Coming home only to realize I have to make dinner
8. Finding the "right" person
9. Need to learn how to cook traditional dishes (A way to a man's heart is through his stomach http://forums.almaghrib.org/images/icons/icon6.gif)
10. Need to study the Quran

Yep...That's why marriage is a scary thought. Khair inshAllah.

As salamu aleykum wr wb

Al Baraa
02-15-2007, 08:56 PM
The ends (‘good discussion points’) do not justify the means (unregulated insulting remarks). Perhaps its a good idea to define what an 'insult' is.


Also, egg-pitching =disrespect. One can get suspended from school for doing that to another person. Not a joking matter!egg-pitching=disrespect only in the practical sense. In the figurative forum sense...its light humor. Thus...being not so serious is sometimes a good thing, it helps to see where the point is, and where they humor is. -- A good discussion is never good without any humor :D

as its said...:D >> smile and let the little things go >> :D

Hala
02-15-2007, 10:18 PM
Salaam everyone,

Sorry to break up the fun, but I had a question about the actual topic of the thread :p

Why were you guys making a list of reasons to delay marriage? Was it an assignment?

That's all :)It's one of the group assignments during the Love Notes seminar.

asyed
02-16-2007, 12:03 AM
Allahu Alam, I think there is a middle ground between Bilal and the sisters. Don't ask me where... It is some where in the middle.

For myself, I pray to Allah that I get a quiet and shy wife. Today's sisters JUST TALK TOO MUCH!!! (& fire-back too much not to mention).

My biggest reason for delaying marriage: CULTURE! Read on...

I am waiting for big bro to get married, so I could step into the rishta spot-light. Would he ever move? Insha Allah there is a chance either this summer or coming winter.

The other thing is that my parents... well they are... well they are something. I openly talked to my mom twice about marriage... She initiated it both times... she even recommended a cousin in Pakistan (who I turned down in a rather quickly)... but since then they will never talk to me about marriage...

Al Baraa
02-16-2007, 12:19 AM
Allahu Alam, I think there is a middle ground between Bilal and the sisters. Don't ask me where... It is some where in the middle.I must be on the top ground...so that must put the sisters underground :D


For myself, I pray to Allah that I get a quiet and shy wife. Today's sisters JUST TALK TOO MUCH!!! (& fire-back too much not to mention).Thas right brotha...speak the truth!


My biggest reason for delaying marriage: CULTURE! Read on...

I am waiting for big bro to get married, so I could step into the rishta spot-light. Would he ever move? Insha Allah there is a chance either this summer or coming winter.

shatter the culture barrier. Take the bull by the horns if you really wanna go in that direction.

asyed
02-16-2007, 12:56 AM
I must be on the top ground...so that must put the sisters underground :D
How about it is a level field... you are in one direction and some of the sisters in the other! Stop being a hater dude!

BTW: I am sure sisters would also want to marry a shy/quite husband... and not someone who can't stop talking... and not someone who keeps firing back... that could be your description Allahu Alam.

Can the sisters also please stop it now.

Al Baraa
02-16-2007, 05:22 AM
How about it is a level field... you are in one direction and some of the sisters in the other! Stop being a hater dude!aint no hatin goin on here....atleast not from my side :)


BTW: I am sure sisters would also want to marry a shy/quite husband... and not someone who can't stop talking... heh...then theyll comeplain that they married a boy.


...and not someone who keeps firing back... that could be your description Allahu Alam.Reaction is fuel for some people. Dont worry...these bullets arn't fatal. :D

mahin
02-16-2007, 07:38 AM
Assalaamu alaikum,

Getting back to what Abdullah was saying..I think he hit it on the money for alot of us, at least for the brothers. There is first of all the issue that unless you graduate and get a good job, don't even think about it. The other day I was talking to my mom about it and she was like 'u graduate in june and don't have a job lined up yet'(partially true, but not the point) and then you can look around. I told her that well we should at least look now and start the process, you know what i'm saying?

I talked to a brother here who's desi(btw..it seems that usually desis have all these issues) and I asked him what he thought about 'celibate marriage' as was discussed in class. This brother, who himself married at age 21 said he believed that there wasn't any point in it, that if the brother and sister are in college, they should just get married straight up. You can have conditions like the girl's father will continue to pay her tuition and whatnot, but that they should move in together, get their own place..he compared it to having roommates while in college where you pay rent, utility, food and all that stuff. Mentions its not paradise but at least you gotta struggle a little. That works if the brother and sister are in the same city or going to the same school. Now, I mean if ppl go about things the right way, they're not really interact that much with the opposite gender except maybe in dawah organizations (MSA, AlMaghrib, whatever) and on top of that, itll be people in their locale. Occasionally things could happen where the sister or brother one is interested in lives in another city if one is say involved with MSA National or State Councils and whatnot.

Back to the parents issue though, everyones parents are different so it depends on the relationship and the protocol that is established. My father has said to his peers that my mom is the one that pulls the strings on that(like she's almost my wali, I gotta get her approval first) and then he'll go along with it. So he and I don't talk about it, so that's fine as thats the established protocol.

Also, some parents are gonna be hardcore as far as marrying from their own country (or even their own family/tribe). My parents used to say that they prefer someone from my country, but they're not adamant about it..but usually when you talk about someone specific who's not from your country, they usually make up some kinda excuse and then you find out it's b/c they still have a hangup about his/her nationality. Sometimes if the family the brother is from has no girls(as in daughters) the mom will try to push this even more; as she wants her daughter in law to fill a daughter's role and they're might be barriers and stuff if they're from a different country. Sometimes the excuses are kinda funny actually...like you might suggest someone specific and your mom will be like "she's fat!" and you might be like "what?? no shes not"...and then it becomes 'she looks like she'll be fat in 2 years'. The brother who I mentioned above(that I spoke with) told me that there's a definite benefit to marrying from your own country but sometimes it's very difficult to find someone if you restrict yourself on that. Sometimes the parents might suggest someone who's not even that religious, and say 'you can get her to wear hijaab after marriage'..or in some magazines it says "willing to wear hijaab for husband"(what about 'willing to wear hijaab for Allaah').

Finally, as our brother Saad Omar from Ghazali project and Georgetown MSA fame pointed out(kinda pointing the obvious) that there is a vacuum as far as brothers are concerned...there are few religious single brothers compared to sisters..and the brothers who are religious ain't cutting the mustard. Like you might see a bunch of sisters working really hard in da'wah and then you'll see all the brothers their age chilling at the cafe drinking tea and watching soccer. Or they might be religious but have bad manners or be unclean...don't take care of their beard(i don't mean trimming it..but like oiling it up and maintaining it and stuff). The article is called "Brothers the weakest link" and just google it..alot of blogs pasted it.

On top of that, you've got brothers like Abdullah who are the cream of the crop (had to get a plug in there for my boy) thinking about going overseas to get married...when there is no need to in my opinion. So the situation is just exacerbated. So I think brothers should not look first to overseas and well they do this because they know they'll get a submissive wife...

That's my 2 cents...

SiBgha_z
02-16-2007, 08:24 AM
Another reason to delay:

You've found 'the one' and now you are just waiting to 'be ready' to take that leap..that jump which'll change your life..for the better inshaAllah.
But you feel you need to be nudged to take that leap. --> Reason some give for not marrying. Everything is set for them, they aren't just ready.

What do you say to them?

*Bump*

mahin
02-16-2007, 08:29 AM
I'd say its psychological...you'll never be perfect...thus you'll never be ready...as per Nike..JUST DO IT!

Memoona
02-16-2007, 08:36 AM
On top of that, you've got brothers like Abdullah who are the cream of the crop (had to get a plug in there for my boy) thinking about going overseas to get married...when there is no need to in my opinion. So the situation is just exacerbated. So I think brothers should not look first to overseas and well they do this because they know they'll get a submissive wife...

That's my 2 cents...MashAllah all your points were really good !!!

But on this specific point the shaykh also mentioned it in class, for every good brother who goes overseas to get married he leaves a good sister here without a husband. So keep looking here cuz their are maaaaaaaaaaaaaddddd good sisters here, that are of the same background, trust me there are!!!!

So for all those brothers thinking about going overseas ... DONT and look here ... you'll be amazed at what u find (inshAllah)

Memoona
02-16-2007, 08:37 AM
Another reason to delay:

You've found 'the one' and now you are just waiting to 'be ready' to take that leap..that jump which'll change your life..for the better inshaAllah.
But you feel you need to be nudged to take that leap. --> Reason some give for not marrying. Everything is set for them, they aren't just ready.

What do you say to them?Like the brother said "Just Do It"

Sirius1
02-16-2007, 12:36 PM
Perhaps its a good idea to define what an 'insult' is.When I said ‘unregulated insulting remarks’, I was referring mostly to the Hadith that was quoted about Aisha (ra) and the subsequent commentary regarding it.

So, about Aisha’s (ra) conversation with the Prophet (sa)—the insulting part was when Aisha’s (ra) conversation was called pointless. (Assuming) We wouldn’t call any of the statements made by the male companions of the Prophet (sa)—pointless—we should keep in mind to give the same level of respect to his female companions. Aisha (ra) was more than his (sa) companion. She was his beloved wife, and the mother of the believers. If one doesn’t understand the point she was trying to make, one should blame one’s understanding and inexperience, not Aisha (ra). The Prophet (sa) was a devoted and experienced lover/husband. Therefore, he (sa) understood what his beloved wife meant.

Also, one mustn’t undermine individuals (women, esp. like Aisha) who were so much a part of his (sa) life and include them in biased/inaccurate generalizations just to make a point.

egg-pitching=disrespect only in the practical sense. In the figurative forum sense...its light humor. Thus...being not so serious is sometimes a good thing, it helps to see where the point is, and where they humor is. -- A good discussion is never good without any humor :D

as its said...:D >> smile and let the little things go >> :DYeah I agree, humor is good (so long as it is well regulated).

As for egg-pitching, it might be light humor if the target has already expressed interest in playing the game. Informed consent is necessary before any sort of game begins. I believe the target was more on the vigilant side. (I know, it’s not always safe to make assumptions when on the forums). So, I hope you get the point. :)

asyed
02-16-2007, 09:57 PM
Another reason to delay:

You've found 'the one' and now you are just waiting to 'be ready' to take that leap..that jump which'll change your life..for the better inshaAllah.
But you feel you need to be nudged to take that leap. --> Reason some give for not marrying. Everything is set for them, they aren't just ready.

What do you say to them?
There is no "one-size-fit-all" answer to this situation. There are a lot of factors to consider:

1) Do the parents (on both sides) know that you have found "the one"?
2) Have you been engaged for ages or are you yet to be engaged?
3) Do you see the other person from time to time? This gives the urge to get married. As the Shaykh said: That is good fitnah for you!
4) Has the sister talked to other sisters that have recently been married... to see how they took the leap?
5) Is there some family history that is making her un-easy?
6) Is she mature enough to take the leap... or does she still read Sixteen?
7) Are there hurdles like school?
8) Is the brother the one sending "I am not ready yet" signals?

There is a lot to know before anybody can say anything. Allahu Alam.

mahin
02-16-2007, 10:32 PM
(to above post)...see..told y'all he was cream of the crop

asyed
02-16-2007, 10:33 PM
I told her that well we should at least look now and start the process, you know what i'm saying? I know what you saying bro! Mom's and society as a whole is like: Dont even talk about marriage unless you have X number of thousands of dollars in the bank... No "looking" until then.

Desi parents have this mentality that if their "boy" is talking about marriage that he's not in control of himself and his desires. They are thinking: Cant he just be paitent... like paitence is enough for you to happily wait until you are 29 to get married.

I talked to a brother here who's desi(btw..it seems that usually desis have all these issues) and I asked him what he thought about 'celibate marriage' as was discussed in class. This brother, who himself married at age 21 said he believed that there wasn't any point in it, that if the brother and sister are in college, they should just get married straight up. Not everybody can handle celibate marriage... especially when you are in the same city! That's gotta be crazy fitnah. It is a long distance relationship, then maybe Allahu Alam.

You can have conditions like the girl's father will continue to pay her tuition and whatnot, but that they should move in together, get their own place..he compared it to having roommates while in college where you pay rent, utility, food and all that stuff. Desi's are too concerned about what other uncles and unties will say... "Were you so eager to get her out of your house that you married her to this man, who is still in college?", "Did she fall in love and force you to marry her to such and such". Therefore the parents are very hesitent of any such arrangement.


The brother who I mentioned above(that I spoke with) told me that there's a definite benefit to marrying from your own country but sometimes it's very difficult to find someone if you restrict yourself on that. Sometimes the parents might suggest someone who's not even that religious, and say 'you can get her to wear hijaab after marriage'..or in some magazines it says "willing to wear hijaab for husband"(what about 'willing to wear hijaab for Allaah'). I have seen that marrying from ones own culture has a lot of benifits, and is also more acceptable to the family... which means your union will be more welcomed in the family. Like my sister and bro in law... they speak two different languages and they always communicate in English... so my nieces speak only english and all 4 grand parents dont like that.

I love that Hibaj line ... not. It always comes from the mom, when she wants you to marry someone who she thinks is first, good looking, then her mother gets along with your mother.


On top of that, you've got brothers like Abdullah who are the cream of the crop (had to get a plug in there for my boy) thinking about going overseas to get married...when there is no needYa Allah dont hold me accountable for what he says and hide my faults and make me better than what he says of me.

We'll I always wanted to marry a student of Farhat Hashmi... but then again I may not match up to her caliber. So, I guess I will settle for a non-Farhat Hashmi student......... And yeah the other reason was the submissiveness. Dude who wants a wife to start nagging him when he comes home? And man sisters back in the old country know how to cook! :)

asyed
02-16-2007, 11:15 PM
you want to marry a sister from Pakistan? why
i mean i never understood the concept behind importing someone from a different country :)...you think they'll be more religious (Ahem Ahem) , submissive?
Well I guess more than me, it is my parents who want to "import". The import will almost never be as religious... especially NOT one from Pakistan... Paki's these days... has anyone watched Geo, PTV, or ARY... it is near-total haram-ness.

BUT if there was a religious sister there v.s. one here... I would for sure prefer one from there. Wonder why?:

1) My parents would like her better.
2) The submissive thing... I mean I dont want her to be my slave or robot... but really... I would would not want my wife to disobey me or be rebellious... and the muslimahs here have adopted some characteristics of the rebellious nature of women from our American society.
3) She'd would have been trained in the art of taking care of the home and the family... who has the time to teach their daughters that sort of "gharaylu" stuff here?

hassanm
02-16-2007, 11:23 PM
you want to marry a sister from Pakistan? why
i mean i never understood the concept behind importing someone from a different country :)...you think they'll be more religious (Ahem Ahem) , submissive? what about the cultural differences? what will you have in common with her and will she be compatible with you?

In my family, alot of people married from Pakistan and their marriages are a total disaster, so i am soooo scared of the whole concept of bringing somebody from overseas.

Your this post and the one below signifies how crucial cultural differences are. A man who is relatively alien to western society may have very hard time adjusting to sisters in US or west.

My brother wants a quiet and shy wife as well and i always tell him to get a maid instead. she'll do as he wishes and she will never question his decisions or state her opinion. simple as that :)

Quietness and shyness are praise worthy characteristics (among men and women both) atleast in culture I belong to. May be its considered as being a maid in US, wallahua'lam.

One thing I been emphasizing, which is not to over do the analysis of marriage, is for reason. If a brother or sister are trying to get married and are doing halal correspondence with potential spouse, it is generally quite a turn off to state the obvious, and try to get agreement on each and every issue (even related to fiqh, in which there is legitimate difference of opinion). If a brother goes and tell sister on face, I expect you to be 100% obedient to me and tell ahadiths emphasizing his points, even if sister in principle agrees with him, as she is aware of Quran and sunnah, she would think what kind of jerk is this guy. Similarly, if sister starts lecturing on women rights in islam and how she would like to have opinion and question husband if she sees something wrong, this seems an obvious thing to religious brother, and he would do it, but guess what, with some other sister that becomes his wife, not this one.

Why do non-muslims "date"? They want to get to know each other, and in few years they separate, many times without marrying. Because they find something trivial they dont like, and since they have no obligations, they separate. Thats why a muslim brother and muslimah should marry after knowing the basics of each other (through proper channel) and the religious tendencies. And no matter what, Qadar is from Allah, good or bad, hence the element of risk is always there. I dont remember who said it, but the saying is, "not to take risk, is very big risk itself".

hassanm
02-16-2007, 11:34 PM
BUT if there was a religious sister there v.s. one here... I would for sure prefer one from there. Wonder why?:

1) My parents would like her better.
2) The submissive thing... I mean I dont want her to be my slave or robot... but really... I would would not want my wife to disobey me or be rebellious... and the muslimahs here have adopted some characteristics of the rebellious nature of women from our American society.
3) She'd would have been trained in the art of taking care of the home and the family... who has the time to teach their daughters that sort of "gharaylu" stuff here?

Yes you are right, many times brothers may settle for pakistan imported 50% religious sister over western grown 99% religious sister. Why? that remaining 1% in western grown sisters hurt the most. The pakistan imported girl may lack in her haqooq-Allah or not doing enough (like just the basic prayer, not much into knowledge) and from haqooq-ul-Ibad, she may be doing gossiping or gheebah, but when it comes to rights of her husband, she may be excellent. (I am not suggesting its necessary right thing to do, just telling why he may like that better). Moreover because of his influence he may be able to correct her. While if western sister happened to lack in her obedience, then whatever comes from him would be useless.

asyed
02-17-2007, 06:41 AM
Another follow up question, i have seen so many 'practicing' brothers marrying sisters who are not religious at all. Maybe brothers can shed some light on logic behind it.Allahu Alam... But my thinking is:

1) That the parents really really were interested in the girl and the guy didnt think she was half bad... and he has waited so long for getting married... so he said yes.

2) Could be a situation where a guy falls in love with a girl and thinks she will become religious after married.

3) If I did this... (Insha Allah which I will never do. May Allah protect me) it would be because my mom would say: She will mold herself to your wants after marriage... You can teach her... Girls just wait until marriage to wear hijab...

Basically the mother convincing her sonthat he can change the nature of his future wife, which I believe can happen, but rarely.

asyed
02-17-2007, 06:56 AM
hmm, i have no faith on my parents and i would never trust their choice...:)
That's not good to say... words like: No Faith, Never Trust... I dont think they are exceptable terms for parents. Allahu Alam.

asyed
02-17-2007, 07:09 AM
(to above post)...see..told y'all he was cream of the crop
Stop it dude. Praises creates that little thing in the heart. It creates ria', etc. etc. I love you for the sake of Allah Mahin :), and becaue you are such a cool brother.

asyed
02-17-2007, 07:14 AM
Yes you are right, many times brothers may settle for pakistan imported 50% religious sister over western grown 99% religious sister.
Umm.. I was talking about a small difference in religiousity... I'll use your 99% here... compare that to 90% from the Old country... Allahu Alam

hassanm
02-17-2007, 07:44 AM
Umm.. I was talking about a small difference in religiousity... I'll use your 99% here... compare that to 90% from the Old country... Allahu Alam

Right, I was not talking about you, I was commenting why some may find that alternative more attractive. Good luck in your spouse search and marriage insha'Allah.

Memoona
02-17-2007, 07:47 AM
Umm.. I was talking about a small difference in religiousity... I'll use your 99% here... compare that to 90% from the Old country... Allahu Alamwhen was the last time when u went to pakistan???

as for the farhat hashmi student ... u can so find one here ... as she is doing a course in canada.

All in all I hope u end up marrying someone from here in the US because there are way too many good sisters here who aren't married because of the already few good brothers and if you brothers started going over seas to get married then that leaves alot more sisters here sitting home who are just waiting.

As for your parents will like her better .... ahem ahem ... if the mother is a typical desi auntie she will always pick on her daughter-in-law ... whether you picked her out or she was your mom's choice.

asyed
02-17-2007, 08:02 AM
when was the last time when u went to pakistan???I dont understand the relavence of this comment.

if the mother is a typical desi auntie she will always pick on her daughter-in-lawInsha Allah none of our mothers will pick on their daughter-in-laws... I certainly dont see my kind mother doing that... I think that happends mostly on PTV daramas.

whether you picked her out or she was your mom's choice.That's the main issue for a lot of brothers.... If any proposal comes from the brother... forget about it... It has to come from the mother... If your mother didnt pick her... then your whole life you will have to bear comments like... I didnt pick her, etc.

redsun
02-17-2007, 02:15 PM
Talk about off-topic... ;P but honestly i don't see what the big deal is--it's all a matter of preference. most ppl perceive the things outside of their own as better than what they have just b/c they're so *very* familiar with the short-comings of their own environment/community/culture/etc and look to the other as having all the good qualities. even brothers overseas are turned off by marrying the girls within their own communities and look to, say, for a righteous wifey in amrika [not all are possessed by the must-have-green-card syndrome, ladies ;) ]. the last time a friend of mine went to pakistan, her relatives were soo impressed by her adab, and being so deeni that they asked her to find them wives over here--on the grounds that they wouldn't be able to find someone as religious in their own community. some guys who come here to study, even, end up marrying sisters from here b/c they are impressed by the sisters' deen. and it's just amazing that all these preferences and pickiness we hold lead us right to our qadr with that someone, alhamdulillah :) so yea, for all the brothers/sisters that end up leaving to find a spouse elsewhere, it balances out with the ones who come here to look anyway :D

just my two rupees.

sincerequestioner
02-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Allahu Alam... But my thinking is:



3) If I did this... (Insha Allah which I will never do. May Allah protect me) it would be because my mom would say: She will mold herself to your wants after marriage... You can teach her... Girls just wait until marriage to wear hijab...

Basically the mother convincing her sonthat he can change the nature of his future wife, which I believe can happen, but rarely.
Very risky,Very risky i repeat and rare too and we also want to be sure that whatever nature she changes will be purely for the sake of Allah and not for the husband.

hassanm
02-17-2007, 04:24 PM
Talk about off-topic... ;P but honestly i don't see what the big deal is--it's all a matter of preference. most ppl perceive the things outside of their own as better than what they have just b/c they're so *very* familiar with the short-comings of their own environment/community/culture/etc and look to the other as having all the good qualities. even brothers overseas are turned off by marrying the girls within their own communities and look to, say, for a righteous wifey in amrika [not all are possessed by the must-have-green-card syndrome, ladies ;) ]. the last time a friend of mine went to pakistan, her relatives were soo impressed by her adab, and being so deeni that they asked her to find them wives over here--on the grounds that they wouldn't be able to find someone as religious in their own community. some guys who come here to study, even, end up marrying sisters from here b/c they are impressed by the sisters' deen. and it's just amazing that all these preferences and pickiness we hold lead us right to our qadr with that someone, alhamdulillah :) so yea, for all the brothers/sisters that end up leaving to find a spouse elsewhere, it balances out with the ones who come here to look anyway :D

just my two rupees.

Hmm strange, I had very different experience. I came here to study (then started working) and then tried to find someone suitable here, but was not impressed what I saw here (lack of adab and commitment in marriage), and ended up marrying someone from back home (well technically another FOB).
Anyway, I think again cultural differences sometimes play some role, and also personal preferences, and no one can dictate others what to prefer or not. As long as everyone is happy, may Allah marry all young people and make them happy.

asyed
02-17-2007, 09:25 PM
From my observation a top reason for delaying marriage for a few of my relatives is that their engagements "broke" (if that is the right word)...

Basically their parents (or in one case they themselves) got 'em engaged to someone and they started to spend time together, going out to eat, etc... all the sudden they didnt like each other... and broke it off.

How does one get around that? Shorter engagement period? No enagement, straight to nikah...?

Allahu Alam

Hala
02-17-2007, 11:14 PM
I have to say I've never learned so much about the Desi culture in one single thread :)
(I don't have any desi friends, unfortunately)
Off topic, though, very enlightening!

craving-jannah
02-18-2007, 12:07 AM
BUT if there was a religious sister there v.s. one here... I would for sure prefer one from there. Wonder why?:

1) My parents would like her better.
2) The submissive thing... I mean I dont want her to be my slave or robot... but really... I would would not want my wife to disobey me or be rebellious... and the muslimahs here have adopted some characteristics of the rebellious nature of women from our American society.
3) She'd would have been trained in the art of taking care of the home and the family... who has the time to teach their daughters that sort of "gharaylu" stuff here?
I agree with abdullah here. And this was made pretty clear to me when my mom said that the thing she fears most regarding me getting married to a sister from here is that i might not go back home anymore. i guess one reason could be becoz the sisters who grew up here are used to the comfortable life style of the wetern world (not tht i am saying the brothers are not!), so its tough to convince a US muslimah to get married and then leave US for a third world country (for seeking 'ilm, or other reasons).

Regarding 'submissiveness,' though a bad word to be using but its more about the attitude of the husband and wife. True that 'some' brothers DO look for someone who is completely submissive, but you cannot generalize. One reason I think that some of the pious sisters back home are better is becoz of their milder attitude. Growing up in a western society creates a sort of individualistic attitude. The media and society rubs off of on oneself. this leads the spouses on a collision course.
I guees, simply put you look for a wife who is able to express her thoughts and not be servile, while maintaining Islamic guidelines of obedience to her husband, especially in a case of unresolved differences of opinion, regardless of nationality or country of residence.

and ofcourse....they gotta know how to cook desi food....some biryani and curry.

and Allahualum.
-3rif

p.s. abdullah...JAK for the email. i'll call u after my exam inshAllah.

craving-jannah
02-18-2007, 12:18 AM
As for your parents will like her better .... ahem ahem ... if the mother is a typical desi auntie she will always pick on her daughter-in-law ... whether you picked her out or she was your mom's choice.
Interesting. Where did this rumor start?! I have been hearing this from too many people recently; ppl keep sayin that desi mother-in-laws are very controlling, they have too much -ve influence on their son's family. Thats stereotyping.
THAT IS NOT TRUE. that only happens on ZTV and PTV, and on occassion in some families. there are marriages that suffer from a controlling and abusive mother in law, and a very quite suppressed husband leading to g8 injustice towards the wife. But you have to look at the reasons behind it too. Most likely the family and most importatly the husband are unaware of their responsibilities as par Sharia'. Its a lack of knowledge tht leads to this sad situation, and is not limited to desi families only. It happens thru' out the muslim lands.
-3rif

Memoona
02-18-2007, 11:26 AM
Interesting. Where did this rumor start?! I have been hearing this from too many people recently; ppl keep sayin that desi mother-in-laws are very controlling, they have too much -ve influence on their son's family. Thats stereotyping.
THAT IS NOT TRUE. that only happens on ZTV and PTV, and on occassion in some families. there are marriages that suffer from a controlling and abusive mother in law, and a very quite suppressed husband leading to g8 injustice towards the wife. But you have to look at the reasons behind it too. Most likely the family and most importatly the husband are unaware of their responsibilities as par Sharia'. Its a lack of knowledge tht leads to this sad situation, and is not limited to desi families only. It happens thru' out the muslim lands.
-3rifOk what i meant about the mother-in-law picking on the daughter in law is not what u see on PTV or ZTV or whatever, I don't really watch any of those programs but of course we've all heard the stereotypes.

What I meant was those snide comments mother-in-laws make aobut their daughter-in-laws. For ex: (this is a true story) a sister on her day off takes out all the pots and pans and decides to clean all of them and give them an extra scrub until they become spotless. After spending the whole day doing this she shows her mother in law (yes they live together) and her mother-in-law says u should do that everyday. Her mother in law couldve said good job, or they look really shiny, but she didn't. It really hurt her daughter-in-laws feelings but the sister didn't say anything. She just let it go.

Thats what I meant by mother in laws picking on their daughter-in-laws.
I don't mean those cruel mother-in-laws that are stereotypical.

redsun
02-18-2007, 01:12 PM
n. Not Ready for Children (this one was shocking… at least to me)


a lot of us (brothers and sisters alike) worry about raising children here because we know what's out there and we want to protect our kids from being exposed to and falling into that kinda fitnah. and some of us know how rocky the parent-child relationship can be ;) but like someone else mentioned in this thread, the more you over-analyze an issue the more fault you will find with it--thereby unecessarily worrying yourself to death... so it's best to just put your trust in Allah swt and realize (in regards to this issue) that if you turned out okay so far, Allah can extend that protection to others as well. i think it's normal for sisters to worry about this issue more b/c as mothers they will be spending the most time with the children.

asyed
02-18-2007, 02:18 PM
From my observation a top reason for delaying marriage for a few of my relatives is that their engagements "broke" (if that is the right word)...

Basically their parents (or in one case they themselves) got 'em engaged to someone and they started to spend time together, going out to eat, etc... all the sudden they didnt like each other... and broke it off.

How does one get around that? Shorter engagement period? No enagement, straight to nikah...?

Allahu Alam*Bump*

Memoona
02-18-2007, 02:40 PM
I don't know how long their engagement period was ... but I think shortening the engagement period would be the best idea. I personally don't think engagement periods should be longer than a year. I think 3-6 month engagement period is fine.

Me and my friends were talking about this issue and my friend said every engagement she knew that was over a year ... eventually broke off.

It also depends on the situation ... so if the guy is over here and the girl is back home I think a longer engagement period will work out fine for them. But if both the guy and girl are here then I think a shorter engagement period is better for them.

Allahu Alam

HiBz EsSenSe ©
02-18-2007, 08:48 PM
I really dont agree with engagements, because in most cases couples starts acting as if they are already married, while they are clearly not, so they keep accumulating sin in the name of 'getting to know each other...'You're for the most part correct but there IS a Hikma (wisdom) behind the engagement period (Unfortunately ppl abuse it & they will be resposnsible for that on the day of judgement) BUT if two, religiously bewaring individuals are interested in marriage, it's only logical to determine if they would be compatible for one another... However I do agree with Memoona on the note that these engagement periods should be a year +, thats a joke & can be a major fitnah in & of itself (or one might choose to have the Nikaah a few months down the line in order to preserve their hearts untill the wedding)

-waAllahu Taala A3lam-

asyed
02-19-2007, 10:02 PM
with engagement, you are technically non-mehram so there shouldnt be eating and talking without a mehram. i really dont agree with engagements, because in most cases couples starts acting as if they are already married, while they are clearly not, so they keep accumulating sin in the name of 'getting to know each other...'...
Yeah I mean Alhamdulillah most people on this forum would know that...

The question is: How do you jump the hurdle... meaning if someone uses that as a reason to delay marriage... uses their engagement being broke as a reason... how do you over come that and encourage them to marry?

SiBgha_z
02-21-2007, 10:02 AM
They just need to understand that it was test from Allah swt and he has something better planned for them. They need to move on because life goes on...the earlier they move on with the better it is...besides whats the point of crying over spilled milk?
I agree with ZammZamm completely, but it does take time to "get over" it. Closure comes easy for some people and not for others.

Faqeera
02-23-2007, 07:39 PM
Way too many generalizations up in here. And if stirring people's emotions (especially sisters) is just for the purpose of some project, than may Allah forgive and purify our intentions.

If we are actually trying to sincerely understand each other instead of defensive arguments, than that is fine, however, it has not turned out that way for some.

Throughout reading all 16 pages of this thread, the only statement that should have put an end to this discussion is on page 7, the bolded part in reply #68.

Period.

*Beautiful Patience*
03-10-2007, 10:45 PM
First Of All...This thread is BEYOND fUNNY, and yeah i got to admit i have used some of thoes lines to!!
b.Feel the need to Finish School
d.Lack of Compatible, Financially Stable, Serious, Mature, Clean, Ready brothers

f.No Halal Social Network !!!!!
j.Haven’t Found “the 1”




Okay, alot of thoes same lines LOL... But Inshallah, i put my trust in allah and his plan for me.http://forums.almaghrib.org/images/icons/icon7.gif


And among His Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect. (30:21)

burgundy
03-11-2007, 12:57 AM
There seems to be this attitude of hurling everyone towards marriage. marriage needs one to be mature and not land one self into a worse emotional or financial situation. marriage is not a cure-all for everything else in life. It is a blessing and responsibility.

What we may call as excuse: not enough money for example, can be a completely valid reason for a person not to marry.

Nida A.
03-14-2007, 01:33 PM
Ideally: Marriage before med school. Helps preserve your faith and gives you that person who will support you through your hectic schedule. Also, you don't have to worry about finding 'the one' because you're already married to 'the one' I/A and that way you can focus on fun things like advanced microbiology

Realistically: Marriage after Med school. You're settled, have gone through the ups and downs of killer exams and crazy demanding work load. You're more aware of yourself as a person and hopefully, have strengthened your faith in Allah and Islam I/A.

Of course, I say this with absolutely no experience whatsoever. People who have gone through the med school route can prolly shed more light on this

AZikria
03-14-2007, 08:14 PM
If you want to get some blessings go to the thread below, put it your comments after reading the first post, then come back to this thread. JAZAKA ALLAH KHAIR.

http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=19330

Mubarak
03-15-2007, 12:01 AM
Assalam

What we may call as excuse: not enough money for example, can be a completely valid reason for a person not to marry.[/QUOTE]
Thats funny because, throughout the Seerah of the Prophet (saw) many of his companions and others got married so very limited wealth. For example, Fatima, the beloved daughter of the Prophet (saw) and she was one of the four women that the Prophet (saw) mentioned as being the best of the Women of this world and the hereafter, was given away by her father to Ali (ra) while Ali only owned a horse and a shield to his name. The Prophet (saw) advised Ali to sell his shield and that money was later used as the Mahr for Fatima. Many lessons were pulled out from this hadeeth including, lack of wealth shouldn’t be a reason to prevent someone from getting married. Besides our aqeedah makes causes us to believe that Allah is our provider and He is the best of those who provide so if we intend to get married for His sake (and His sake alone) than let us also place our trust in Him. Whenever I hear excuses to delay marriage and one of the main excuses that I seem to always hear is “financial situation”, I cant stop but think to myself, are we any better than the companions of the Prophet (saw) and the answer is obviously NO.



And Allah knows best

aarij
03-19-2007, 11:47 AM
Plz...ur telling me that hijaabis dont go all out on thier setup? hah!

There is a sociological grouping of sisters:


no-jabi: Dont wear hijab. Just like all the other nonMuslim women. Includes women that dress modestly without headscarf or dress provacatively without headscarf.


ho-jabi: Dress like the nonMuslim (provacative type, skin-tight cloths, t-shirts during summer), but with a scarf on the head.


G-jabi: "Gangsta hijab", these are the sisters from the ghetto, or wanna be ghetto. They got the tomboy look. Baggy jeans, hoodies, ...and head scarf.


hijabi: dresses modestly with a headscarf


Jilbabi: Basically wears the jalabiyyah, and headscarf.


Ninja-bi: basically your burqa and niqaab wearing sisters.
We discussed "thats exactly why you should marry a hijabi". Note that A sister can be in any one of those sociological catagories and have the typical fallouts:

character and integrity
contentness
deen...
...deen isnt only the outer appearance. Does she pray 5x a day? Does she obey her parents, does she fast, etc. Hijab is a small part and important small part...for most guys alteast, but no the be all end all.

Also...a sister can belong to any of those sociological catagories, but still be your typical jaw dropping bombshell when outside of the house (either via makeup, perfume, dress, etc), and a brillo factory worker at home...

...thus marrying a 'hijabi' doenst mean anything.



Control in the sense that as an individual I have the choice to continue with it. For example:

If I dont like my job, or career, or the work I'm doing, or the business sector I'm in, I can simply change that by getting a different job, career, starting a different business, etc.

If I dont like my wife...I can't just simply get another one. Well...I can, but then thats asking for disaster and 2x the headache. I cant just leave her...well i can, but that's just wrong....

...get what I'm saying?*need rolling on the floor laughing out loud emoticon*


subhan Allah bro, may Allah bless you, but you're a funny guy!!

Ghufran
03-19-2007, 03:34 PM
Assalam

What we may call as excuse: not enough money for example, can be a completely valid reason for a person not to marry.Thats funny because, throughout the Seerah of the Prophet (saw) many of his companions and others got married so very limited wealth. For example, Fatima, the beloved daughter of the Prophet (saw) and she was one of the four women that the Prophet (saw) mentioned as being the best of the Women of this world and the hereafter, was given away by her father to Ali (ra) while Ali only owned a horse and a shield to his name. The Prophet (saw) advised Ali to sell his shield and that money was later used as the Mahr for Fatima. Many lessons were pulled out from this hadeeth including, lack of wealth shouldn’t be a reason to prevent someone from getting married. Besides our aqeedah makes causes us to believe that Allah is our provider and He is the best of those who provide so if we intend to get married for His sake (and His sake alone) than let us also place our trust in Him. Whenever I hear excuses to delay marriage and one of the main excuses that I seem to always hear is “financial situation”, I cant stop but think to myself, are we any better than the companions of the Prophet (saw) and the answer is obviously NO.



And Allah knows best[/QUOTE]
An example of ALlah providing from that same story was that as a marriage gift, the person who bought the shield, for more than it was worth might i add, Uthman Ibn Affan radi Allahu anhu, gave Ali radi Allahu anhu the shield.

“And whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty).

And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine”

[al-Talaaq 65:2-3]

Mubarak
03-20-2007, 06:03 PM
Alhamdulilah, I take it that Ghufran agrees with my point of view and furthers supports my evidence by completing the narration. May Allah admit us into His mercy for He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.

*Aasiyah*
03-20-2007, 09:01 PM
Plz...ur telling me that hijaabis dont go all out on thier setup? hah!

There is a sociological grouping of sisters:

no-jabi: Dont wear hijab. Just like all the other nonMuslim women. Includes women that dress modestly without headscarf or dress provacatively without headscarf.


ho-jabi: Dress like the nonMuslim (provacative type, skin-tight cloths, t-shirts during summer), but with a scarf on the head.


G-jabi: "Gangsta hijab", these are the sisters from the ghetto, or wanna be ghetto. They got the tomboy look. Baggy jeans, hoodies, ...and head scarf.


hijabi: dresses modestly with a headscarf


Jilbabi: Basically wears the jalabiyyah, and headscarf.


Ninja-bi: basically your burqa and niqaab wearing sisters.
We discussed "thats exactly why you should marry a hijabi". Note that A sister can be in any one of those sociological catagories and have the typical fallouts:

character and integrity
contentness
deen...
...deen isnt only the outer appearance. Does she pray 5x a day? Does she obey her parents, does she fast, etc. Hijab is a small part and important small part...for most guys alteast, but no the be all end all.

Also...a sister can belong to any of those sociological catagories, but still be your typical jaw dropping bombshell when outside of the house (either via makeup, perfume, dress, etc), and a brillo factory worker at home...

...thus marrying a 'hijabi' doenst mean anything.



Control in the sense that as an individual I have the choice to continue with it. For example:

If I dont like my job, or career, or the work I'm doing, or the business sector I'm in, I can simply change that by getting a different job, career, starting a different business, etc.

If I dont like my wife...I can't just simply get another one. Well...I can, but then thats asking for disaster and 2x the headache. I cant just leave her...well i can, but that's just wrong....

...get what I'm saying?

Asalaamu3alaykum brother,

In sha Allah I hope you will understand this is a reminder and not feel accused. We all need reminders everyday, especially to ourselves, and we only want to improve ourselves and our ummah. In sha Allah I hope that is clear first of all.

For some reason I cringed when I read your commentary on different categories of hijaabi women. I figured out why, and the reason is, is that it can be borderline or inline making fun of a term that is part of our deen. Especially if you add a "bad word" mixed in with an Islamic word. It's almost like a strange way of slandering a "type" not an individual. I know you were joking, as we all understand, but there are conditions when we make something funny. Perhaps we should be very careful in our wording. Here is my evidence...

"What are the conditions for joking to be permissible?

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.


1 – It not should not involve any element of making fun of Islam.

That is one of the things that nullify a person’s Islam. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’

Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed”

[al-Tawbah 9:65-66]

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Making fun of Allaah, His Signs and His Messenger is kufr (disbelief) and the one who does that disbelieves thereby after he had believed.”

The same applies to making fun of some Sunnahs, an action which is widespread, such as making fun of the beard and the hijaab, or of shortening one’s garment, etc.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen said in al-Majmoo’ al-Thameen, 1/63:
“The matters of Divine Lordship, Prophethood, Revelation and religion are sacred matters which are to be venerated. It is not permissible for anyone to show disrespect towards them, whether by mocking them to make others laugh or to poke fun at them. If anyone does that, he is a kaafir, because this is indicative of his disrespect towards Allaah and His Messengers, Books and Laws. Whoever does that has to repent to Allaah for what he has done, because that is a kind of hypocrisy. So he has to repent to Allaah, seek His forgiveness, mend his ways and develop fear of Allaah, veneration towards Him and love for Him in his heart. And Allaah is the Source of strength."

Again, I do not mean to offend or humiliate anyone, or say that you are in fact committing an awful transgression, I just feel that it is cutting close. I guess the main thing that disturbed me the most is the "h_-jabi" and we know that they are not in fact "h_'s" becasue they dress that way. A "h_" is another word for a woman who commits zani type of acts, immoral, and promiscuity....astagfirullah. Hijaab is a beautiful mercy in Islam, and we shouldn't make any Islamic, meaningful words into swear words. WE WOULD NEVER DO THAT WITH ALLAH SWT NAMES.

I know that you probably didn't make up that word on your own, but we shouldn't mention it and pass it on so that the perversness continues on and make people laugh.

You also mentioned: "...thus marrying a 'hijabi' doenst mean anything. "

I'm sure another sister has discussed this with you. It is in fact a huge matter, if it wasn't, there wouldn't be so much information about it in the books. There are punishments explicitly described. We know that character is the ultimate thing weighed on the ultimate scale, but it's the entire package we aim to recieve. Like she said, if you would have worded it a little differently makes the big difference..."everything" is better than "anything."

May Allah swt forgive us for what we overlook and do not know, amin. And in sha Allah you forgive me also.

*Aasiyah*
03-20-2007, 09:04 PM
*need rolling on the floor laughing out loud emoticon*


subhan Allah bro, may Allah bless you, but you're a funny guy!!
Asalaamu3alaikum brother, I hope you read my above post also.

julyprncssleo
03-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Salamu Alaikum,

how come this topic is so focused on finding the ideal bride? How come there aren't more sisters & brothers discussing real concerns regarding the prospective husband to the similar nitty gritty details?

Why aren't more of the concerns that sisters have regarding marriage & prospective husband also being discussed?

Am I in the wrong section?

*Aasiyah*
03-21-2007, 04:31 PM
wa3laykum'asalaam,

I haven't read the entire thread, but I guess the topic went that way...for no intended bias. If you want to talk about ideal husbands, perhaps start another thread...people go off topic and discuss everything that tangents and sparks interest. And it looks like brothers are more outspoken about ideal wives, and muslimahs refrain...due to whatever level of comfort they have.

(by any chance, does your screen name mean that you were born in july and your sign is a leo, and added 'princess' into the mix)?

~Oum AbdurRahman~
03-26-2007, 03:01 PM
Delay marriage for:

The sake of finishing your education

The sake of seeing the world, seeing life....travel...learn new things....

The sake of Allah because you know you'd make a bad spouse due to your disliking to be controlled in anyway.

The sake of wanting to swim in freedome

spana3rabia
03-26-2007, 03:40 PM
JazakAllah kheir for getting this thread back on track sis oum abdurrahman! :)

you know the last one, The sake of wanting to swim in freedome

I've always wondered, does one REALLY lose freedom once they're married?

I've heard, for the guys, they can't stay out late like they used to(i dont know why they have to stay out till 4 am anwyays...doing who knows what...)and chill with friends AS MUCH....

and for girls, the hubbys like, NO, you can't go here and you cant go there, and you have to stay home, because that is what a good muslim woman does...rears children and cooks food for me and...thats it!

I realize those are two extremes...but hey, THATS WHAT I HEAR! Allahu A'lam how true THAT is.

HopefulMuslimah
03-26-2007, 04:41 PM
JazakAllah kheir for getting this thread back on track sis oum abdurrahman! :)

you know the last one, The sake of wanting to swim in freedome

I've always wondered, does one REALLY lose freedom once they're married?

I've heard, for the guys, they can't stay out late like they used to(i dont know why they have to stay out till 4 am anwyays...doing who knows what...)and chill with friends AS MUCH....

and for girls, the hubbys like, NO, you can't go here and you cant go there, and you have to stay home, because that is what a good muslim woman does...rears children and cooks food for me and...thats it!

I realize those are two extremes...but hey, THATS WHAT I HEAR! Allahu A'lam how true THAT is.I think that would depend on a lot of things!
like how much freedom you have before marriage, what your definition of freedom is ( are you the kinda person that wants to go anywhere at any given time? that might not be the case after marriage), and also your personal habits, if you like going out all the time or not and finally how controlling your spouse is.

for example, I'm not the type that wants to go out all the time but also I can stay at home three days in a row. so since I don't go out frequently I would wanna have my freedom to go out the times I want to do so. :)lol

~Oum AbdurRahman~
03-29-2007, 02:11 PM
JazakAllah kheir for getting this thread back on track sis oum abdurrahman! :)

you know the last one, The sake of wanting to swim in freedome

I've always wondered, does one REALLY lose freedom once they're married?

I've heard, for the guys, they can't stay out late like they used to(i dont know why they have to stay out till 4 am anwyays...doing who knows what...)and chill with friends AS MUCH....

and for girls, the hubbys like, NO, you can't go here and you cant go there, and you have to stay home, because that is what a good muslim woman does...rears children and cooks food for me and...thats it!

I realize those are two extremes...but hey, THATS WHAT I HEAR! Allahu A'lam how true THAT is.

Yes, what they say is true. You do loose your freedom. Sorry to be so blunt but I can't sugar coat the subject anymore....

But there are some people who are used to that anyways...not having freedome...so it just depends on what your comfort level is and how much are you willing to sacrifice.

~Oum AbdurRahman~
03-29-2007, 02:12 PM
I forgot..... loneliness can also be a prison for some, so it really depends on you.... and what you need in life.

Asha
04-05-2007, 05:14 PM
With my brother a neat freak husband is what i prefer!!! :)

A question i wanna throw out is race one of the preferences for brothers????????

Asha
04-05-2007, 05:19 PM
Delay marriage for:

The sake of finishing your education

The sake of seeing the world, seeing life....travel...learn new things....


these are two big ones!! i know if i get married anytime soon, it will be a big excuse to drop out of accidently get pregnant and then drop out!!!! :(

i need a partner to travel w/ me!! :) lots of vacations b4 kids inshallah if we can offord....

Monazza
04-09-2007, 09:59 AM
Haha that's pretty funny....but I definitely heard all of those same reasons from the brothers at Love Notes this past weekend. It's pretty crazy how alike we are.

Sarah Mushtaq
04-09-2007, 12:36 PM
After going through 17 pages.. all I can say is SubhanAllah:)

asyed
04-11-2007, 03:34 PM
A question i wanna throw out is race one of the preferences for brothers????????
It certainly can be, because it affects the social-a-bility of the couple. For example if you go to a wedding where everybody is speaking urdu and your wife doesnt speak a word of urdu, you'll feel very bad that your wife had to come out to that wedding. I dunno if that is a good example, but hopefully you get the point insha Allah.

asyed
04-11-2007, 03:35 PM
School and Parents (sigh) and waiting for the guy I like to gain more Islamic knowledge. :(((make dua for me everyone!!!
May Allah make it easy on you insha Allah.

Ahmed Ibn Hassan
04-17-2008, 06:27 PM
On thing I say a lot is that I’m not mature enough. That’s what I say, and I think that some youngsters have to be real about it and tell it like it is sometimes. Maturity plays an important characteristics role in not only in your personal life, but ones ability to maintain a healthy marriage.

There not 17 reasons but this one is more important out the rest (for me).

Bint Abu Bakr
04-18-2008, 02:33 PM
Its best that they realize that is what they are getting into, and not be suprized that two months into the marriage they have a migraine the size of Texas...

...I think most sensible guys that realize this take the productive passionate work route (this is my opinnoin)Akhi, the way you go on about marriage, it seems as if by committing to marriage you are commiting to suicide or sentence to death (maybe i am slightly exaggerating) BUT subhanAllah i have read the first 4 pages (i fink) nd i only got negative feedbacks the wholeway through :( (sorry if i missed your positive feedbacks).

Do you really think/believe that ideology? coz its shocks me!