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tameem-adarami
04-07-2007, 01:02 PM
This topic was heating up a little bit today. However, keep in mind--an act that is halal always is better than haram. There is much benefit in following the Sunnah with Sincerity.

fshareef
04-07-2007, 01:37 PM
LOL... sh. yaser asked "does a man have to tell his first wife about marrying a second wife?". all the bros unaninmously said, "NO!" and all the sisters unanimously yelled "YEA!". :p

craving-jannah
04-07-2007, 03:21 PM
:D
and Sh Yaser added, Islamically the man doesn't need to; but not doing so is a SOCIAL SUICIDE.

3rif

UmmSakinah
04-07-2007, 05:03 PM
Oh, so this was what's brewing in Mcpherson 1000 today, huh?

Is the infidelity question reasked? Updates please...

Rahma
04-07-2007, 08:18 PM
Oh, so this was what's brewing in Mcpherson 1000 today, huh?

Is the infidelity question reasked? Updates please...There was a lot brewing up in the chem lab today :D
Alhamdulilaah.
-Hala

eternalmuslimah
04-09-2007, 01:29 PM
this goes out to the brothers...

would you seriously consider not marrying someone if she decided to put something on the marriage contract which would disallow you from marrying for a second (third or fourth) time?

Abu Hurayrah
04-09-2007, 01:51 PM
this goes out to the brothers...

would you seriously consider not marrying someone if she decided to put something on the marriage contract which would disallow you from marrying for a second (third or fourth) time?It all depends. The natural thought process would be, "If she has such an issue with this, I wonder what else she is 'hung up' about?"

The issue of polygyny (remember, not polygamy) and strong resistence to it is generally associated with Western mentality. If the brother is not looking for that, then if the sister stresses on this, it's kind of like a red flag.

I am not saying that even a traditionally-minded sister would have no problem - I hardly think any wife would desire to have co-wives. But she is far less likely wouldn't stipulate it in the contract itself.

The thing is, for most brothers raised in the West, even if they are traditionally-minded, they probably would never take on a second wife.

No matter what, though, this issue is hard to discuss objectively, as brothers look at it as as their God-given right (which it literally is) and sisters look at it as unjust due to the perceived injustice they experience from the thought of it.

eternalmuslimah
04-09-2007, 02:01 PM
It all depends. The natural thought process would be, "If she has such an issue with this, I wonder what else she is 'hung up' about?"

The issue of polygyny (remember, not polygamy) and strong resistence to it is generally associated with Western mentality. If the brother is not looking for that, then if the sister stresses on this, it's kind of like a red flag.

subhaanAllah, i get what you're saying...but i mean having it on the marriage contract, in a way, makes it the only way to guarantee that a husband won't go out and re-marry because technically a man doesn't have to tell his wife

Allah 3lam

umm imarah
04-09-2007, 02:07 PM
Oh, so this was what's brewing in Mcpherson 1000 today, huh?

Is the infidelity question reasked? Updates please...
Yes, and guess who asked it? LOL.

Abu Hurayrah
04-09-2007, 02:12 PM
subhaanAllah, i get what you're saying...but i mean having it on the marriage contract, in a way, makes it the only way to guarantee that a husband won't go out and re-marry because technically a man doesn't have to tell his wife

Allah 3lamTechnically, yes...but I advise the sisters to ask themselves, "Why make this the most important issue?"

I don't claim to even be able to approach understanding this issue as a man, but surely the sisters can, at the very least, admit that it is more of an issue with Western-style thinking than it is with traditional. And beyond that, they should be able to admit that it is more of an issue with "modern" ideologies than with traditional, and more Islamic, ones. So, with these kinds of associations, is this the kind of baggage a Muslimah wants to have?

We, of course, all have baggage of one way or another, but this one is pretty heavy for sisters here in the West. Ask yourselves why is that, and you might find that you don't like the answer.

And think about the situation that shaykh Yaser mentioned to us about New York city - that is, if every man married one woman, there would still remain 1 million women unmarried.

Allow the sisters to look at it from this perspective: what if you were single, unmarried, or even a widow or divorced. Would you have the same idea if you were, yourself, presented with the option of becoming a second wife after, say, many years of living on your own?

I'm not really on any kind of a crusade here, I just wanted the sisters to evaluate their reasons for disliking plural marriage, and the extent of that dislike. Many sisters take it to such an extreme as to challenge the wisdom in Allaah's allowing it for Muslim men. This is dangerous on too many levels. So, allow yourselves just to get used to the idea, and if it is really such a painful issue for some, then ask Allaah to strengthen you in the face of it.

UmmSakinah
04-09-2007, 03:55 PM
Yes, and guess who asked it? LOL.I know. She told me :D I wish I was there. This is the second time she incited laughter and a quite a response from Sheikh Yaser. The first one was hilarious too. If you don't know the story, ask her :D

Rahma
04-09-2007, 07:13 PM
I remember when Umm Salimah was proposed to by the Prophet s.a.w. and she replied no because of these reasons.

1.) I am old and I have many children ( his reply, I am older than you)

2.) I am very jealous (his reply I'll make dua for you)

In terms of Polygamy--of course sisters will feel a bit jealous at the thought of this. So, all in all it helps to know what the person grounds are for this before anything takes place. In light of this I don't think we should be threatened by it just at the mention of it for if we stress out about it or not it may or may not happen. Aisha r.a. was not at all that threatened by it....as we learned from the narration of the ties she formed with the other women (good ties---forming the groups to go at one another..). Bottom line---be stress free.

Abu Hurayrah
04-09-2007, 07:38 PM
i guess the sisters' take on this is that this crisis (if every man married one woman, there would still remain 1 million women unmarried) is not evident (yet atleast). meaning: there is no urgent purpose for the husband to get a 2nd wife and doing so would only mean dissatisfaction in current marriage - NOT 'a noble cause to save the world's unmarried women'.Of course. That is one example. There are places where the men outnumber the women. I was just using it as an example, and asking the sisters to put themselves in the shoes of women that might be amongst those one million. What would you prefer for yourself at that time?

I was thinking about this more today, and I realized that the most important thing is that the sisters be very careful, whatever their opinion about their own husband taking more than one wife, that they still acknowledge that it is completely legal and permissible in Islam. I know of some sisters that would argue about the issue of polygyny to such an extent, you wonder if they honestly feel it is not allowed in Islam, or that is "shouldn't be". This is, of course, outright disbelief. This life is too short to let one's opinion on an issue take you out of Islam.

And, again, I point to the fact that it is dilemma only in certain cultures - ones that arguably are closer to the lifestyle of the West, though I am sure there are some exceptions. You don't have to be thrilled about it, but don't let your feelings drive you towards an attitude that can conflict with your belief in Allaah. This is what I am most worried about.

Kaltham
04-09-2007, 09:06 PM
When we talked about the purpose of marriage the first one was for the pleasure of it.. When a man gets a second wife, i think it is for the pleasure that Allah has created in them. Yes it is halal and yes men have the right to do it, but i really think the reason why women are super sensitive about it is because they have seen many cases where aquiring a second wife resulted in her losing her rights that Allah has given her. Men are obligated to be fair in terms of their responsibility towards the wives and spending on them.. I think women are naturally jealous because they feel that their husband now loves her less or loves another woman more than he loves her. But when he is not even giving her basic rights in spending time with her, she is basically abandoned; she has no option but to hate her marriage and the whole idea of multiple wives. This does not mean we hate Allah’s judgment, it means we just don’t like the action. (Remember how people in the class felt about cousin marriage, we all agreed it was halal, but most people did not like it, does this mean we are questioning Allah’s wisdom, Alhamdulilah not)

I so agree with you however Abu Hurayrah in terms that as many sisters do over emphasize the issue. I personally think writing it on a contract is too weird: its kinda like expecting him to do it, he might as well do it.

Fii Amaani'Laah

Kaltham
04-09-2007, 09:21 PM
UmmSakinah and Umm Imarah, someone said to me that i ask controversial questions!! I didn't understand!

About the infidility and second wife issue... I did not mean to say that it is infidility, but when we talked about infidility, we said that if it happens in a marriage and the wife/husband decides to 4give the other person and save the marriage, the memory of the painful incident will always stay in the back of their hearts and minds even if they pretend to have forgetten. Now if a man seeks a second wife without telling his wife, it is not cheating obviously, but it will leave the wife hurt, and even if she accepts it, she'll never forget what you have done. Now i know men are not obligated to tell the first wife, but i'm sure the Prophet Alayhi salaam did not hide his wives!! Both the husband and the wife are obligated to treat each other with kindness and not informing her of this is the exact opposite of kindness.

Fii Amaani'Laah

UmmSakinah
04-09-2007, 10:15 PM
I think sometimes women think of this too much, the prospect of it happening, that it might become a source of stress and unnecessary debate.

Possible solution: make dua that if it happens, for Allah to open your heart and make it easy for you to accept.

Life on earth is not forever and were the husband to be unjust to the wives, it's more of a problem for him on the day of judgment.

Allah is Fair and Just. I guess if we think of it only in terms of the dunya the thought would be devastating, but if we think of it in terms of dunya wal aakhirah, it might help make it easier. Wallaahu aa'lam.

Abu Hurayrah
04-09-2007, 10:26 PM
When we talked about the purpose of marriage the first one was for the pleasure of it.. When a man gets a second wife, i think it is for the pleasure that Allah has created in them. Yes it is halal and yes men have the right to do it, but i really think the reason why women are super sensitive about it is because they have seen many cases where aquiring a second wife resulted in her losing her rights that Allah has given her. Men are obligated to be fair in terms of their responsibility towards the wives and spending on them.. I think women are naturally jealous because they feel that their husband now loves her less or loves another woman more than he loves her. But when he is not even giving her basic rights in spending time with her, she is basically abandoned; she has no option but to hate her marriage and the whole idea of multiple wives. This does not mean we hate Allah’s judgment, it means we just don’t like the action. (Remember how people in the class felt about cousin marriage, we all agreed it was halal, but most people did not like it, does this mean we are questioning Allah’s wisdom, Alhamdulilah not)
I sincerely hope that the sisters understood that I, of course, meant only in the cases where the husband will fulfill the rights of all wives. Otherwise, he is committing a big sin in doing so, and it is not permissible for him.

Does the case outlined above happen frequently? I'm afraid to find out, but I am almost certain that it does. I did not wish to appear insensitive to this issue of rights not being fulfilled, because that is not my intention whatsoever in this discussion.

Abu Hurayrah
04-09-2007, 10:27 PM
I think sometimes women think of this too much, the prospect of it happening, that it might become a source of stress and unnecessary debate.

Possible solution: make dua that if it happens, for Allah to open your heart and make it easy for you to accept.

Life on earth is not forever and were the husband to be unjust to the wives, it's more of a problem for him on the day of judgment.

Allah is Fair and Just. I guess if we think of it only in terms of the dunya the thought would be devastating, but if we think of it in terms of dunya wal aakhirah, it might help make it easier. Wallaahu aa'lam.Maa shaa Allaah...I was going to mention some of these points earlier, but you beat me to it.

UmmSakinah
04-09-2007, 10:28 PM
Overall polygyny has gotten a bad rep because people have been abusing it.

Hanan
04-09-2007, 10:50 PM
This is a sensitive topic..I honestly don't think a man has any right to marry on his wife the quran gave this right with limitations that can not be met and men are not dying off in wars like they used to so there is no need for a man to have more than one wife, but it seems like men always find away to play with a woman's emotions whether he is religious or not.. no matter what the arguement is , it all started with 1 man and 1 woman Adam and Eve not Adam and Eve and Evette... women have enough issues they have to deal with they don't need this as well. If you look at the list men wrote you see how demanding they are..obey him, obey his parents be ready at all times..and what does he give in return? he pays the bills well these days the woman can do that without a man so what else can men offer? despite giving so little they want to bring another woman into a marriage..I really dont get it..a woman gets sick of her husband too ..a wife is a partner in love not slavery.. I'm gonna get censored after this :)

Abu Hurayrah
04-09-2007, 11:00 PM
This is a sensitive topic..I honestly don't think a man has any right to marry on his wife the quran gave this right with limitations that can not be met and men are not dying off in wars like they used to so there is no need for a man to have more than one wife, but it seems like men always find away to play with a woman's emotions whether he is religious or not.. no matter what the arguement is , it all started with 1 man and 1 woman Adam and Eve not Adam and Eve and Evette... women have enough issues they have to deal with they don't need this as well. If you look at the list men wrote you see how demanding they are..obey him, obey his parents be ready at all times..and what does he give in return? he pays the bills well these days the woman can do that without a man so what else can men offer? despite giving so little they want to bring another woman into a marriage..I really dont get it..a woman gets sick of her husband too ..a wife is a partner in love not slavery.. I'm gonna get censored after this :)
I don't think you'll get censored, in shaa Allaah...

What you're saying is very true in that the conditions are difficult to fulfill, and Allaah says so in the very same aayah - that men will never be truely just. However, we know that it's still permitted because it was practiced by the sahaabah themselves. Of course, their culture was different at the time. To practice polygyny here in the US, despite being against the law, is also just impractical and unnecessarily difficult. However, we have to be careful about saying what is and isn't allowed. A woman doesn't have to love that it is allowed, but she also shouldn't say men don't have that right, because the Qur'aan explicitly says that, and this was the understanding of the sahaabah.

I hope that you were able to attend all the sessions, Hanan, because a lot of the concerns you've brought up, I think, were addressed during the class, amongst them the reasons why what men see as loving from a marriage are different from what women see. The shaykh made the point to emphasize that there are natural differences between men & women, and this is why we see such a difference between their views of marriage.

Naturally, no one should believe that a wife should be a slave to her husband - that, of course, is not proper. Keep in mind, also, what the brothers listed down were, more or less, the ideal cases - what they would see as the best things their wives could do for them. It's unreasonable and illogical, though, for them to expect that without doing, then, the things that the sisters found to be the loving kinds of actions as well. When both are doing what the other loves, then you'd have a stable & successful marriage, in shaa Allaah. But if it is one-sided or rights aren't being fulfilled, then it doesn't matter, because the balance will have already been upset.

This, at least, is how I viewed it, but others may have some other thoughts.

Hala
04-09-2007, 11:42 PM
Ironically, I've noticed that it's the single sisters who stress more about this than anyone else. subhanAllah, sometimes I wanna come out and say "worry about it when it happens to you." There's nothing we can do now while we're single about it, obviously, so why talk about it? Get married, discuss it with your husbands, and work from there... fullfill your obligations, and if everything is well, he shouldn't need one..wallahu a'lam.

sameya
04-09-2007, 11:59 PM
Asalaam! I Am New To This Forum ,so Inshahallah Will Try To Stay Intouch With Your Views . This Continued Link After The Class Yesterday Is A Blessing For Us.

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 12:02 AM
masha'Allah many useful points raised here!

Hala
04-10-2007, 12:03 AM
Asalaam! I Am New To This Forum ,so Inshahallah Will Try To Stay Intouch With Your Views . This Continued Link After The Class Yesterday Is A Blessing For Us.Wa 'Alaykumassalam! Welcome! I agree, alhamdulilah, the student connection here between classes is amazing!

Perhaps you'd like to start a thread here and introduce yourself :)

http://forums.almaghrib.org/forumdisplay.php?f=12

sameya
04-10-2007, 12:06 AM
I Think U R Rite . First We Have To Try Our Best With Allah Swt's Help And Grace . And When U R In Love ,u Have Especial Strength And Patience Radiating From You. So Don't Worry Ya'll. Say , Inshahallah!

Umm Salma
04-10-2007, 12:57 AM
Women should calm down about polygyny. Allah made it permissible for a reason, and there is wisdom behind everything Allah decrees. We are not ones to judge that. Sister Hala raised a good point in that if a woman is single, let it be her concern when she gets married or when the occasion rises. She should not judge something that she does not know or have experience of.

May Allah open up our hearts and keep us thankful for the blessings we have. Ameen.

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 12:58 AM
Ameen!

I mean it's hard to make up your mind either way when you have not even experienced marriage...

because after all subhaanAllah there are women out there who are okay with their husbands marrying for a second (or more) time.

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 01:03 AM
basically, we should trust in Allah and pray that we find a spouse that would respect and comply with our wishes when and if the time came around

craving-jannah
04-10-2007, 01:10 AM
Oh man....interesting stuff and sooo much to say. But I guess i'll keep quite here, lest I mispeak.
Where is SAS...?!?!?!:D
-arif

craving-jannah
04-10-2007, 01:12 AM
i dont doubt one bit the permissibility of polygyny in islam. but i know the effect this action would have on most, future or present, marriages, since jealousy is natural amongst wives. if the 1st wife is fine with this then mashallah, but most sisters do not respond postively to this subject since they keep in mind their negative reaction to this if proposed by husband - which would only imply the unhappiness of the husband in current marriage.

A very close friend/brother told me how his wife solved this problem for him. When they were engaged, she told him that he can get a second wife IF AND ONLY IF she gets to pick her (the second wife).
So I guess this way, the 1st wife can make sure that the 2nd wife is not prettier than her, if not less!!!

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 01:12 AM
Oh man....interesting stuff and sooo much to say. But I guess i'll keep quite here, lest I mispeak.
Where is SAS...?!?!?!:D
mispeak?

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 01:14 AM
A very close friend/brother told me how his wife solved this problem for him. When they were engaged, she told him that he can get a second wife IF AND ONLY IF she gets to pick her (the second wife).
So I guess this way, the 1st wife can make sure that the 2nd wife is not prettier than her, if not less!!!
subhaanAllah, that never even occured to me...

now then again...there are a lot of spouses who differ in their tastes :D

Khair insha'Allah

craving-jannah
04-10-2007, 01:14 AM
mispeak?
mis.speak (verb): to speak inaccurately, inappropriately, or too hastily.

Umm Salma
04-10-2007, 01:33 AM
I saw a video once on YouTube that interviewed a man who had married 4 wives. He claimed that for every wife he married after the first, he married them because of the previous wife's jealousy. So sometimes if a first wife is jealous of a second wife, she'd want her husband to marry a third wife so that the second wife could feel jealous as well. Interesting concept...

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 01:33 AM
subhaanAllah

umm imarah
04-10-2007, 06:00 AM
UmmSakinah and Umm Imarah, someone said to me that i ask controversial questions!! I didn't understand!

About the infidility and second wife issue... I did not mean to say that it is infidility, but when we talked about infidility, we said that if it happens in a marriage and the wife/husband decides to 4give the other person and save the marriage, the memory of the painful incident will always stay in the back of their hearts and minds even if they pretend to have forgetten. Now if a man seeks a second wife without telling his wife, it is not cheating obviously, but it will leave the wife hurt, and even if she accepts it, she'll never forget what you have done. Now i know men are not obligated to tell the first wife, but i'm sure the Prophet Alayhi salaam did not hide his wives!! Both the husband and the wife are obligated to treat each other with kindness and not informing her of this is the exact opposite of kindness.

Fii Amaani'LaahKaltham, I don't really think you ask contraversial questions. In fact, you ask very good questions that many of us shy away from. I'm not sure if I talked to you about this but, for me the mention of the word infidelity in this setting was strange, because as far as I know the usage of the word, infidelity denotes marital disloyalty, unfaithfulness, breach of trust and so on. So, since this is perfectly legal in Islam and the husband isn't doing anything wrong in the sense of the Sharia, I was just surprised that infidelity was mentioned in the same breath as taking more than one wife.

umm imarah
04-10-2007, 06:15 AM
I think it is understandable why the sisters are so "hung up" on this issue. Imagine a sister is the only practising Muslimah in her family. Her wearing the hijab and implementing certain Islamic prinicples that are deemed "extreme" by some members of her family are already causing issues in her family.

She then finishes school, gets married and decides to stay home after having children. The parents are super worried now, thinking she is wasting her life and education and possilby the husband is making her do all these things.

To make matters worse, the husband takes on a second wife...

I remember Sh. Yaser saying that marriage isn't just a union btn a husband and a wife but rather a union of families since new bonds are formed in the process. Many parents will just die a "slow death" at the thought of seeing their daughter in that kind of situation. Just like brothers who are very religious and upright would opt for a less religious but culturally similar sister for marriage to keep the harmony in the family, there is no problem for sisters to want to marry a brother who won't take up a subsequent wife. This of course does not mean the sisters don't support the principle as it is ordained by Allah. They just don't want it for themselves and stipulating it in the marriage contract may be one way of ensuring that :D

Having said that, the sister need to chill! Looking at the brothers we have today, btn 9-5 jobs, masjid and da'wah work, they hardly have any time left for 1 wife plus kids plus extended family, let a lone a second wife and whatever comes with that. So, the current brothers we have, though they do support the principle (because men hate to be told you can't do that...) will be less likely to actually follow through it. For those who think they can, wait till you get married :D

So, as umm Hamza said, make dua that in the event that happens to you, Allah opens your heart to accept it. In the mean time, don't give him any reasons to go get a second one :D

UmmSakinah
04-10-2007, 07:07 AM
I was about to mention the lack of time for a man to get a second wife with all the obligations he has upon his shoulders but ummimarah beat me to it. :D

He has to spend time with his wife, children, dawah stuff, if he has a home, the lawn, garage, share of housework, car/s, Mr Fix it, sick kids, sick wife, pregnant wife, kids' school, kids' extra curricular activities, sports, work, in laws....like Abu Hurayrah said, at least here in America it is somewhat impractical.

Interestingly, that is what my husband said as well :D

And Hala made an interesting observation too...you do mellow out as you get older I guess.

Kaltun, controversial questions? Nah...more like entertaining ones :D you give life to any class. Wish i was there

fevzy
04-10-2007, 08:25 AM
I honestly don't think a man has any right to marry on his wife the quran gave this right with limitations that can not be met and men are not dying off in wars like they used to so there is no need for a man to have more than one wife, but it seems like men always find away to play with a woman's emotions whether he is religious or not.. no matter what the arguement is , it all started with 1 man and 1 woman Adam and Eve not Adam and Eve and Evette... women have enough issues they have to deal with they don't need this as well. Read the whole verse that permits a man to get involved in polygyny especially regarding "fear". This verse also overtakes the "Eve and Evette" argument. We may have opinions on (majority) muslim men, but let's not indicate or even imply that matters in the Quran are wrong and man-made laws are superior that Allah-made laws.
I'm gonna get censored after this :)I'll let your two wonderful brothers deal with you, inscyheaAllah.

Siraaj
04-10-2007, 10:53 AM
Polygyny - my thoughts on it? As the old saying goes, the more the merrier (if you have the money and nerves to deal with it). :D

Siraaj

Hala
04-10-2007, 11:20 AM
I saw a video once on YouTube that interviewed a man who had married 4 wives. He claimed that for every wife he married after the first, he married them because of the previous wife's jealousy. So sometimes if a first wife is jealous of a second wife, she'd want her husband to marry a third wife so that the second wife could feel jealous as well. Interesting concept...WOW! :O

I guess it differs for everyone. When someone is extremely against the polygyny topic, most likely, they've seen/know co wives who are miserable. They may not get equal treatment etc..

I know some very happy co wives..so that may be why I'm not so 'hostile' about it, wallahu a'lam.

However, I'm sure every woman has a fear in the back of her head. I've heard of amazing love stories where the husband and wife wanted to marry, parents wouldn't allow it, they fought for each other, and in the end, they won and got married. They were married for 50 or so years, and then, BAM! He marries another (young & beautiful) one on her, when she's obviously older and not able to bear children anymore. That to me would be the ultimate heartbreak, at least do it when they're both young & beautiful! :D

Anywho, it's something out of our control while we're single right now... I don't find any married sisters trying to 'heavily' defend this topic or prove their points against co-wives..Why is this? Wallahu a'lam, we'll find out later :)
This goes for brothers as well, ask yourself this when you have to deal with 1 heavily emotional PMSing trainwreck, see then if you'd like to add one :D

Abu Hurayrah
04-10-2007, 11:34 AM
Where is SAS...?!?!?!:D
-arifDon't worry, I'm covering for him. : -D

craving-jannah
04-10-2007, 12:02 PM
Having said that, the sister need to chill! Looking at the brothers we have today, btn 9-5 jobs, masjid and da'wah work, they hardly have any time left for 1 wife plus kids plus extended family, let a lone a second wife and whatever comes with that. So, the current brothers we have, though they do support the principle (because men hate to be told you can't do that...) will be less likely to actually follow through it. For those who think they can, wait till you get married :D

So, as umm Hamza said, make dua that in the event that happens to you, Allah opens your heart to accept it. In the mean time, don't give him any reasons to go get a second one :D
Jazeek Allah Khayr...very well put. Atleast there are some sisters who are on our side....huh.mashAllah

Niqaabis
04-10-2007, 12:51 PM
As salaam 'alaikum

Im not sure if I am allowed to post this up, if not then please admins remove it and forgive me for posting it

Its an email I recieved from a sister who needs some help

read below inshaa Allaah

Baarak Allaahu feekum

---------------------------------------------------------------

Bismillaah Inalhamdulillaah was-Salaatu was-Salaamu 'ala Rasulillaah wa ba'd:

Assalaamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuh ya akhwaat. Inshaa'Allaah, I pray that this email reaches you in the best state of eeman and ihsaan striving to be pleasing to Allaah subhaanahu wa ta'aala in the best of manners.

As many of you know I am on a mission!!! The response that I have received to the publishing of my book Polygynous Blessings: Musings of a Muslim Wife has solidified for me that there is a desire and a need within this Ummah for literature about polygyny from a more personal standpoint framed within the shade of Qur'aan and Sunnah. While there is some written material on the topic of polygyny in Islaam from a more personal standpoint, most of this literature is from the voice of Muslimaat, some directly involved in polygyny, some not. In addition, the resounding voice of existing literature on polygyny in Islaam from a personal standpoint seems to be a voice of opposition and Allaah subhanaahu wa ta'ala knows best.

Ya akhwaat, I said I was on a mission and my mission is to bring new voice to polygyny discourse within this Ummah. For even though the voice booming from the mimbar seems to be spewing stories of polygyny-gone-wrong and "SAY NO TO POLYGYNY," I know that this voice is not necessarily representative of ALL polygynous marriages within our Ummah or even MOST polygynous marriages. I know that there are ample examples of successful polygynous marriages within our Ummah even if they are not in the spotlight and I am trying to bring these examples out of the shadows because frankly, we need to hear these stories. We need to hear them not just to sooth our broken hearts, calm our fears, disprove our skepticism, and make us believe in the wisdom behind polygyny being legislated by Allaah subhaanahu wa ta'ala. We need to hear them so that we can get some insight from our brothers and sisters who are making polygyny work and apply this naseehah in our own lives. And of course the best example that we have, first and foremost, is that of Rasulullaah sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam and Ummuhaat Al-Mu'mineen, may Allaah be pleased with them all.

That being said, I am seeking your assistance once again for an anthology project that I am working on. One of these anthologies will be a compilation of the stories of Muslim men who aspire to be, have been, or currently are involved in polygyny. The title that I have selected for this book is To Protect and Maintain: Muslim Men Speak On Their Role as Polygynous Husbands. Inshaa'Allaah, in order to generate submissions I have come up with a questionnaire, with the assistance of my dear sister-friends, wa jazaakum Allaahu khair.
I have attached the questionnaire to this email along with the submission guidelines. inshaa'Allaah ya akhwaat, please pass this information along to your husbands, brothers, fathers, anybody that you feel can help in this endeavor. and may Allaah subhaanahu wa ta'ala reward you all for your support of this project. Ameen.

Wa Jazaakum Allaahu khair was-Salaamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuh,
Your Sister Fillaah


Questionaire (http://www.an-najwa.com/ProtectandMaintain.doc)

Submission Guidelines (http://www.an-najwa.com/poly_expressions.doc)

UmmSakinah
04-10-2007, 12:51 PM
Anywho, it's something out of our control while we're single right now... I don't find any married sisters trying to 'heavily' defend this topic or prove their points against co-wives..Why is this? Wallahu a'lam, we'll find out later :)

Why is this? Hmm....maybe because we've become a bit mellower?

Or maybe because they're much much closer to the possibility of it happening that they figured, they'd better try to find a way to deal with it were it to happen instead of trying to fight it, if they really want to go to Jannah...

Or, they're too busy trying to give the husband a reason NOT to do it?

Or, they're too busy raising & conceiving his kids?

Or just plain because there is no point heavily defending it because well, if it happens, it happens..you just deal with it, just like with anything else in life..cest la vie.

Or, maybe because they know the grueling duties of being a wife and maybe they don't really mind having some people with whom to distribute those duties with?

Or, maybe because polygyny in truth is actually more burdensome for the husband than it is for the wives?
Think about it, if he is unfair he will meet Allah in a horrible condition.
His responsibities are doubled, tripled, quadrupled. (this is a LOT)
Imagine for one wife, if he has 5 children, he has to be fair how he spends time with that wife, AND the children and that's only one wife.
Imagine how much money he has to earn to be able to support all his wives.
Imagine him splitting his time between the wives, children, work, his personal hobbies, dawah etc.
Imagine the inlaws he has to deal with.
Imagine the houses he has to get, the cars, the grocery shopping.
Imagine the many antics (wives, children) he has to deal with.

The wives on the other hand, can just sit back, yeah, have some emotional battles, but in all, they don't have to work, they have their own money to spend and the husband can't touch that, they can split up the cooking between the co wives, they can plot against him (Aisha vs Zaynab), etc.

I guess in other words, try to look on the bright side

As for the brothers...yes, handling one woman is headache enough.

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 02:21 PM
As for the brothers...yes, handling one woman is headache enough.
yeah, we should wait for our single brothers to get married first...and then insha'Allah all of us will comment here

Allah 3lam...it is halaal...

But a woman DOES have the right to put it on her contract...but u know what, it's for both parties to decide and as i said before...insha'Allah we should trust our spouses (future or current) to make the best decision if and when the time comes!

khair insha'Allah

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 02:31 PM
so i'm through with replying to this thread...really i don't believe we can have a say until we have experienced marriage, itself...

Niyah
04-10-2007, 03:05 PM
this is good discussion really it will be great to have this put together on article to hayl newsletter so we can all benefit.

Umm Salma
04-10-2007, 07:51 PM
yeah, we should wait for our single brothers to get married first...and then insha'Allah all of us will comment here

Allah 3lam...it is halaal...

But a woman DOES have the right to put it on her contract...but u know what, it's for both parties to decide and as i said before...insha'Allah we should trust our spouses (future or current) to make the best decision if and when the time comes!

khair insha'AllahEven if a woman puts it on her contract, for example, asking him to sign so that he won't marry another wife, it is invalid because Allah gave every man this right and that takes precedence over any contract that we write up.

Wa Allahu a'alam.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hala
04-10-2007, 07:56 PM
Even if a woman puts it on her contract, for example, asking him to sign so that he won't marry another wife, it is invalid because Allah gave every man this right and that takes precedence over any contract that we write up.

Wa Allahu a'alam.

Please correct me if I am wrong.According to some madhabs, he can't break it if she mentions it in the contract. My notes are not in front of me right now, can anyone remember which madhab?

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 08:22 PM
According to some madhabs, he can't break it if she mentions it in the contract. My notes are not in front of me right now, can anyone remember which madhab?wasn't it hanafi who say that it isn't binding?

Allah 3lam...my notes aren't in front of me...but i'm expecting that ukhti Hala will correct her lil muslimah friend over here...insha'Allah!

Hala
04-10-2007, 08:24 PM
wasn't it hanafi who say that it isn't binding?

Allah 3lam...my notes aren't in front of me...but i'm expecting that ukhti Hala will correct her lil muslimah friend over here...insha'Allah!I didn't want to say it if I wasn't sure..... if someone has their notes in front of them, they can correct us por favor :)

umm imarah
04-10-2007, 08:24 PM
According to some madhabs, he can't break it if she mentions it in the contract. My notes are not in front of me right now, can anyone remember which madhab?
The Hambali madhab.

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 08:25 PM
wasn't it hanafi who say that it isn't binding?

Allah 3lam...my notes aren't in front of me...but i'm expecting that ukhti Hala will correct her lil muslimah friend over here...insha'Allah!

OOOPS! Sister Sam here just realized thatyou said u didn't have them with you either...and all this time i thought it was trivia...subhaanAllah!

Hala
04-10-2007, 08:25 PM
The Hambali madhab.JazaakiAllah khayr eedo Ardo :)

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 08:26 PM
The Hambali madhab.jazaakAllah!

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 09:01 PM
Don't worry, I'm covering for him. : -D
subhaanAllah! i can't believe i didn't notice the mention of my dearest cousin Sas...

too bad i haven't heard his little lecture...yet!

:D

umm imarah
04-10-2007, 09:29 PM
A bone for the brothers...

"Polygamy is a complicated aspect of marriage in Islaam in which the welfare of the community supercedes the desires of the indiviual (woman)."

Cool quote, huh?

Abu Hurayrah
04-10-2007, 10:35 PM
subhaanAllah! i can't believe i didn't notice the mention of my dearest cousin Sas...

too bad i haven't heard his little lecture...yet!

:DAre you related to Sas?

eternalmuslimah
04-10-2007, 10:43 PM
Are you related to Sas?yes, i am his maternal cousin

Umm Salma
04-11-2007, 12:32 AM
A bone for the brothers...

"Polygamy is a complicated aspect of marriage in Islaam in which the welfare of the community supercedes the desires of the indiviual (woman)."

Cool quote, huh?What exactly does that mean?

eternalmuslimah
04-11-2007, 12:34 AM
What exactly does that mean?
i'm guessing that it means that we (women) should realize the need of the community more than our own regards...

i.e. many women won't be able to get married if every man out in the world was to marry only once



i hope i got it right...(?!?)

Umm Salma
04-11-2007, 12:50 AM
So I was thinking about it, and I remembered reading the benefits and wisdom of polygyny on IslamQA.com. So I'm assuming that quote is in regards to those benefits, i.e. expanding the Muslim ummah, marrying widows and spinsters, etc. Is that it?

eternalmuslimah
04-11-2007, 01:02 AM
that's what i would make of it, for sure

Kaltham
04-11-2007, 01:22 AM
Polygyny - my thoughts on it? As the old saying goes, the more the merrier (if you have the money and nerves to deal with it). :D

Siraaj
Here is the solution sistahz: MAKE SURE YOUR HUSBAND NEVER GETS RICH.!

Fii Amaani'Laah

eternalmuslimah
04-11-2007, 01:26 AM
Here is the solution sistahz: MAKE SURE YOUR HUSBAND NEVER GETS RICH.!

Fii Amaani'Laah
hahaha...

reminds me kinda of...


$$'me no worry, me no care
me go marry a millionaire
if he die, me no cry
me go marry another guy'$$

ok so that wasn't to be taken seriously...got it sistahs! ;)

Kaltham
04-11-2007, 02:39 AM
hahaha...

reminds me kinda of...


$$'me no worry, me no care
me go marry a millionaire
if he die, me no cry
me go marry another guy'$$

ok so that wasn't to be taken seriously...got it sistahs! ;)
Loooool!!

Fii Amaani'Laah

Abu Hurayrah
04-11-2007, 05:44 AM
yes, i am his maternal cousinMaa shaa Allaah. Please send my salaam to your Auntie (his mother). I am very happy that you were able to attend.

MohamedS
04-11-2007, 10:37 AM
It will be best if real life experiences of families from this background are posted here rather than hypothetical scenarios. The positive and the negative. The permissibility of polygene is not in doubt except some fringe groups. However, the practicality of it is the big question especially in societies where legally it is not permissible.

Niqaabis
04-11-2007, 03:39 PM
really i don't believe we can have a say until we have experienced marriage, itself...
I agree baarak Allaahu feeki

as someone once said

"You can not create experience. You must undergo it."

eternalmuslimah
04-11-2007, 04:50 PM
Maa shaa Allaah. Please send my salaam to your Auntie (his mother). I am very happy that you were able to attend.
yeah alhamdulillah i'm happy too that i was able to attend

Sabiqoon
04-11-2007, 11:59 PM
polygamy is good so long as the second, third, fourth wife knows she is marrying a married man AND preferablly her family knows as well.

In all transactions in life, honesty is the best policy. Even if it hurts the person. Because when you are syaing the truth , you cannot go wrong.

Umm Salma
04-12-2007, 12:24 AM
polygamy is good so long as the second, third, fourth wife knows she is marrying a married man AND preferablly her family knows as well.

In all transactions in life, honesty is the best policy. Even if it hurts the person. Because when you are syaing the truth , you cannot go wrong.I would think that if a woman was to marry a man, he would have to eventually tell them all that he was already married or marrying another, because he has to divide his time amongst them. It would be pretty suspicious if the man said, "Uhh, I can't see you every other night. I have some uh... business to take care of." I mean, maybe that would be true for a real occupation... Allahu a'alam.

Sabiqoon
04-12-2007, 08:34 AM
unfortunately it has happened. So it is fardh for a married man to tell th woman he will marry.

Men have done decieved women in the past, believe it or not.

Abu Hurayrah
04-12-2007, 12:26 PM
So it is fardh for a married man to tell th woman he will marry.I don't want to start an argument, but this actually goes against what the shaykh told us in the class. He did say it was social suicide not to tell his wife/-ives that he's going to, but nothing in Islam actual stipulates that it is obligatory for him to do so.

This is a technical point, of course, but we cannot just say something is fardh or haraam without being on solid, Islamic legal grounds.

Sabiqoon
04-13-2007, 10:09 AM
Fardh for an already married man proposing to a potential second, third, fourth wife.

I did not say telling his first wife that he is going to get married.

I said if he is proposing to a woman, it is incumbent upon him to tell her he is an already married man.

I think Shaykh Yasir was mentioning about getting permission from the first wife is not necessary and I agree, I didnt say anything about that.

*al-bayyinah*
05-31-2007, 09:30 AM
eternalmuslimah (http://forums.almaghrib.org/member.php?u=7484) this goes out to the brothers...
would you seriously consider not marrying someone if she decided to put something on the marriage contract which would disallow you from marrying for a second (third or fourth) time?
imagine if every woman put this condition in her Nikah Contract ? http://forums.almaghrib.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

ummsamir
05-31-2007, 10:08 AM
This is a sensitive topic..I honestly don't think a man has any right to marry on his wife the quran gave this right with limitations that can not be met and men are not dying off in wars like they used to so there is no need for a man to have more than one wife, but it seems like men always find away to play with a woman's emotions whether he is religious or not.. no matter what the arguement is , it all started with 1 man and 1 woman Adam and Eve not Adam and Eve and Evette... women have enough issues they have to deal with they don't need this as well. If you look at the list men wrote you see how demanding they are..obey him, obey his parents be ready at all times..and what does he give in return? he pays the bills well these days the woman can do that without a man so what else can men offer? despite giving so little they want to bring another woman into a marriage..I really dont get it..a woman gets sick of her husband too ..a wife is a partner in love not slavery.. I'm gonna get censored after this :)
SubhanAllah, I used to have this exact same opinion on this topic. I forget where I read it, but the ayah was expained perfectly to me one day.

Simply stated, the ayah in the Qur'an says "...Marry two, three or four...." Then it goes on to state if you feel that you will be unjust to marry only one. Now, we all know Allah subhanu'a ta'alaa does not say things in the Qur'an by coincidence. The ayah states plural marriage BEFORE monogomous marriage. marry two, three or four THEN it tells you if you cannot, marry only one.

Maybe a sheikh can weight in on the tafseer of this ayah as I can not say that this is for sure what it means. But I do know that there is nothing in the Qur'an that is placed by 'coincidence', and knowing that, it changed my whole oopinion on polygynous marriage. That does not mean, I would not be jealous or that I would necessarily WANT my husband to marry another wife, but I would know that he has every God-given right to and is following the Sunnah.

As for writing it in the contract that a man CANNOT marry another wife. how can any muslimah, however strong her conviction is, take away a right that Allah is given? If I am not mistaken you cannot take a Halaal and make it haraam.

Rasulullah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

"Any condition, which is not in Allaah’s Book, is worthless (invalid). Even if there are a hundred conditions. Allaah’s decision is more valid and Allaah’s condition is more binding." (Agreed upon)

He (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) also said, "Muslims are bound to their conditions/stipulations, (But) a condition that makes Halaal a Haraam or a Haraam Halaal is (not from binding conditions)." (Bukhari, Tirmidhi and others)

Abu Hanifah and ash-Shafi‘ee stated: This (type of condition) is turning a Halaal into a Haraam. Taking more than wife and traveling (are Halaal). As well, these conditions do not benefit or improve the ‘Aqd (marital pre-nuptial contract) and are not integral to it. In fact it would be similar to stipulating that she is not to present her self (ever) to him (in copulation)."

Allahu Alim.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
05-31-2007, 10:53 AM
Actually any type of condition can be put on a nikah contract. If a man agrees to give up his right then there is nothing wrong with it. It happens all the time. So many women give up their right to mahr or sometimes their right to be financially sustained. And inshAllah people should be careful and not talk without knowledge

Question:
Is there any ruling that says in a marraige contract that a wife can refuse her husband a co-wife?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book Al-Mughni:

“If he married her on the condition that he should not make her move from her house or her city, then this condition is valid, because it was reported that the Prophet http://islam-qa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ If he married her on the condition that he will not marry another wife, then she has the right to leave him if he does take another wife.” In conclusion, then, the conditions of the marriage contract are divided into three types, one of which must be adhered to, which is of benefit to the wife, such as her being able to stipulate that he cannot make her move from her house or city, or travel with him, or take another wife or a concubine. He has to adhere to these conditions, and if he does not, then she has the right to annul the marriage.” </FONT>(Al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah, part 7, Kitaab al-Nikaah).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked this question and he replied in Al-Fataawa al-Kubra:

“Question: a man married a woman and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her house, and that she could stay with her mother, so he married her on this basis. Does he have to adhere to this, and if he goes against these conditions, does his wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?

Answer: yes, these conditions and similar ones are valid according to the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad and other scholars among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, such as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Shurayh al-Qaadi, al-Oozaa’i and Ishaaq. According to the madhhab of Maalik, the condition states that if he marries another wife, (the first wife) has the choice of what to do, and this is a valid condition. The woman has the right to leave him in this case. This is similar to the idea in the Madhhab of Imaam Ahmad. The basis for this is the hadeeth narrated by (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) in al-Saheehayn from the Prophet http://islam-qa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: ‘Rights are in accordance with conditions.’ The Prophet http://islam-qa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) dictated that the conditions which make sexual intercourse permissible are more deserving of fulfilment than others. This is the ruling on conditions of this nature.”

abuyahya
05-31-2007, 11:01 AM
SubhanAllah, I used to have this exact same opinion on this topic. I forget where I read it, but the ayah was expained perfectly to me one day.

Simply stated, the ayah in the Qur'an says "...Marry two, three or four...." Then it goes on to state if you feel that you will be unjust to marry only one. Now, we all know Allah subhanu'a ta'alaa does not say things in the Qur'an by coincidence. The ayah states plural marriage BEFORE monogomous marriage. marry two, three or four THEN it tells you if you cannot, marry only one.

Maybe a sheikh can weight in on the tafseer of this ayah as I can not say that this is for sure what it means. But I do know that there is nothing in the Qur'an that is placed by 'coincidence', and knowing that, it changed my whole oopinion on polygynous marriage. That does not mean, I would not be jealous or that I would necessarily WANT my husband to marry another wife, but I would know that he has every God-given right to and is following the Sunnah.

As for writing it in the contract that a man CANNOT marry another wife. how can any muslimah, however strong her conviction is, take away a right that Allah is given? If I am not mistaken you cannot take a Halaal and make it haraam.

Rasulullah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

"Any condition, which is not in Allaah’s Book, is worthless (invalid). Even if there are a hundred conditions. Allaah’s decision is more valid and Allaah’s condition is more binding." (Agreed upon)

He (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) also said, "Muslims are bound to their conditions/stipulations, (But) a condition that makes Halaal a Haraam or a Haraam Halaal is (not from binding conditions)." (Bukhari, Tirmidhi and others)

Abu Hanifah and ash-Shafi‘ee stated: This (type of condition) is turning a Halaal into a Haraam. Taking more than wife and traveling (are Halaal). As well, these conditions do not benefit or improve the ‘Aqd (marital pre-nuptial contract) and are not integral to it. In fact it would be similar to stipulating that she is not to present her self (ever) to him (in copulation)."

Allahu Alim. Salam calikum, after reading this kind of response to this topic i was like :) but after realizing that it was a sister who responded like this i was like :D .

Stawf
05-31-2007, 11:51 AM
If my husband wants to marry second time by following all Islamic conditions of Marriage, then I will gladly agree. I will have my sister in Islam with me for the sake of Allah, and inshaAllah, our life will be more easy in this western country by sharing all responsibility about family, children and so on---. I will have my sister when I am in need and she will have me when she is in need. So, why is not? But remember he has to follow the Sunnah exactly like our beloved prophet Muhammad (pbuh). He does not have any choice about it. That is the deal.



And guess what most of the men do not have such ability, so -----J

hassanm
05-31-2007, 03:03 PM
If my husband wants to marry second time by following all Islamic conditions of Marriage, then I will gladly agree. I will have my sister in Islam with me for the sake of Allah, and inshaAllah, our life will be more easy in this western country by sharing all responsibility about family, children and so on---. I will have my sister when I am in need and she will have me when she is in need. So, why is not? But remember he has to follow the Sunnah exactly like our beloved prophet Muhammad (pbuh). He does not have any choice about it. That is the deal.



And guess what most of the men do not have such ability, so -----J

So unless they are perfect human beings and commit no sin or have no mistake in them, they should not marry second?

Stawf
05-31-2007, 03:49 PM
Well, I say he have to follow the Sunnah----we all have to---making mistake is normal as a human, but as a Muslim we should know how to practice Islam 24/7 as a full time Muslim ----if my husband follows the sunnah then i do not see any harm marrying second, third or fourth time, inshaAllah. Let them enjoy their right according to the Quran and Sunnah.
--Allahu Akbar.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
05-31-2007, 10:55 PM
Asalamu Alaikum

We live in very different times. And those living in the west should especially be very cautious when practicing polygymy. The women and men nowadays are not raised to deal with such responsibilities. The girls grow up seeing their father married to one woman all his life, they see their brothers with one wife, everywherer around from movies to parties, ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN. The man too grow up only learning to deal with one woman, and some are not even attracted to such a idea. The society and the environment has a huge influence in your personality and in the way you deal with responsibilities. I hear men all the time talking about having many wives etc and expect their wives to deal with it. Most of us can't. We didn't grow up like Aisha (ra) who saw all the men around her with many wives, and saw all her friends living with co-wives. Nowadays a woman is pitied when her husband marries another. None of her friends or family have ever heard of such thing. And most men are simply not men. They are just obsessed with satisfying their desires and have no desire to do what great men do. Which is way more than enjoying life and women.

The state of Ummah is so low right now, the last thing we need is men going around marrying four wives, and getting EVEN more obsessed with this dunya and getting even more distracted from their REAL duties.

hassanm
06-01-2007, 09:17 AM
Asalamu Alaikum

We live in very different times. And those living in the west should especially be very cautious when practicing polygymy. The women and men nowadays are not raised to deal with such responsibilities. The girls grow up seeing their father married to one woman all his life, they see their brothers with one wife, everywherer around from movies to parties, ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN. The man too grow up only learning to deal with one woman, and some are not even attracted to such a idea. The society and the environment has a huge influence in your personality and in the way you deal with responsibilities. I hear men all the time talking about having many wives etc and expect their wives to deal with it. Most of us can't. We didn't grow up like Aisha (ra) who saw all the men around her with many wives, and saw all her friends living with co-wives. Nowadays a woman is pitied when her husband marries another. None of her friends or family have ever heard of such thing. And most men are simply not men. They are just obsessed with satisfying their desires and have no desire to do what great men do. Which is way more than enjoying life and women.

The state of Ummah is so low right now, the last thing we need is men going around marrying four wives, and getting EVEN more obsessed with this dunya and getting even more distracted from their REAL duties.

I find it interesting how women come up with philosophical excuses for men not marrying more than one woman.

ummsamir
06-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Actually any type of condition can be put on a nikah contract. If a man agrees to give up his right then there is nothing wrong with it. It happens all the time. So many women give up their right to mahr or sometimes their right to be financially sustained. And inshAllah people should be careful and not talk without knowledge

Question:
Is there any ruling that says in a marraige contract that a wife can refuse her husband a co-wife?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book Al-Mughni:

“If he married her on the condition that he should not make her move from her house or her city, then this condition is valid, because it was reported that the Prophet http://islam-qa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ If he married her on the condition that he will not marry another wife, then she has the right to leave him if he does take another wife.” In conclusion, then, the conditions of the marriage contract are divided into three types, one of which must be adhered to, which is of benefit to the wife, such as her being able to stipulate that he cannot make her move from her house or city, or travel with him, or take another wife or a concubine. He has to adhere to these conditions, and if he does not, then she has the right to annul the marriage.” </FONT>(Al-Mughni by Ibn Qudaamah, part 7, Kitaab al-Nikaah).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked this question and he replied in Al-Fataawa al-Kubra:

“Question: a man married a woman and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her house, and that she could stay with her mother, so he married her on this basis. Does he have to adhere to this, and if he goes against these conditions, does his wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?

Answer: yes, these conditions and similar ones are valid according to the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad and other scholars among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een, such as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Shurayh al-Qaadi, al-Oozaa’i and Ishaaq. According to the madhhab of Maalik, the condition states that if he marries another wife, (the first wife) has the choice of what to do, and this is a valid condition. The woman has the right to leave him in this case. This is similar to the idea in the Madhhab of Imaam Ahmad. The basis for this is the hadeeth narrated by (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) in al-Saheehayn from the Prophet http://islam-qa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): ‘The most deserving of conditions to be fulfilled are those by means of which sexual intercourse becomes permissible for you.’ ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: ‘Rights are in accordance with conditions.’ The Prophet http://islam-qa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) dictated that the conditions which make sexual intercourse permissible are more deserving of fulfilment than others. This is the ruling on conditions of this nature.”

Salaam sister! MashAllah, thanks for the article. I never said it was haraam to stipulate that in the contract, but i meant it more like why would you because he can still do it regardless and she has the right to divorce regardless, especially if there is a lot of jealousy and problems between wives and it is causing too many issues in the marriage. Thats all my point was. And true, it is not correct that we should speak without knowledge, thats why I made it clear that this is what I had learned, and that a sheikh should weigh in ;)

May Allah forgive me for any errors inshaAllah. Thanks sis!

ummsamir
06-01-2007, 01:10 PM
if a woman was to put in the contract this condition of not taking a second wife, it doesnt mean it's haraam for the husband to marry again, it just gives the wife the means to ask for divorce, since the contract binding the marriage is broken. i dont support this, but this is what we learned.

also, we discussed in the class how Allah COMMANDS us to marry ONE, and THEN bestows upon the men the right to marry more.
wallahu 'alam
True, I know about putting it in there so she can divorce if she chooses, but she has the right to divorce anyways if there are issues in the marriqage due to him marrying another woman, so why put it in there if it is halaal for him regardless and divorce is there for her if she chooses? Thats more of what I meant. Sorry about that!

About marrying more than one -- Perfect!! I'd trust the sheikh more than something just randomly read by me ;) I'll have to remember where I read it and get some clarification this weekend inshaAllah at Love Notes :)

ummsamir
06-01-2007, 01:12 PM
Salam calikum, after reading this kind of response to this topic i was like :) but after realizing that it was a sister who responded like this i was like :D .
LOL! Lots of sisters think this way that I have talked too, but we don't always want to let our husbands know ;) Jealousy is strong, brother!

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 03:16 PM
I find it interesting how women come up with philosophical excuses for men not marrying more than one woman.
I didn't say there is something wrong with a real man getting many wives. What I don't find so pleasent is seeing some bearded man with a belly sticking out, sitting on some luxurious couch drooling over women. And that's the situation in most cases. Honestly if men were even the tenth of the man Umar Ibn Khattab was, women wouldn't mind being their third or fourth wife. The manliness of men day by day is just disappearing. The only thing that defines a man nowadays is his obsession with women.

hassanm
06-01-2007, 04:23 PM
I didn't say there is something wrong with a real man getting many wives. What I don't find so pleasent is seeing some bearded man with a belly sticking out, sitting on some luxurious couch drooling over women. And that's the situation in most cases. Honestly if men were even the tenth of the man Umar Ibn Khattab was, women wouldn't mind being their third or fourth wife. The manliness of men day by day is just disappearing. The only thing that defines a man nowadays is his obsession with women.

If men are not like sahbah, then women are not like sahabiyat either. Sahbah used to marry 4 of their kind, and it would make sense for 1/10 of likes of sahbah to marry 4 women that are 1/10th of likes of sahabiyat.

I have personally seen only 3-4 men all my life who married more than 1 wife. And I have never seen more righteous than them. And also their wives were extremely righteous.

If manliness is dissappearing, so is womanliness. Ofcourse, women think, only men detoriated since sahbah while women remained like sahabiyat.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 04:34 PM
If men are not like sahbah, then women are not like sahabiyat either. Sahbah used to marry 4 of their kind, and it would make sense for 1/10 of likes of sahbah to marry 1/10th of likes of sahabiyat.

I have personally seen only 3-4 men all my life who married more than 1 wife. And I have never seen more righteous than them. And also their wives were extremely righteous.

If manliness is dissappearing, so is womanliness. Ofcourse, women think, only men detoriated since sahbah while women remained like sahabiyat.

I agree with you. Women also are nothing like the sahabiyat. The thing that bothers me when I see men and women following the sahaba when it comes getting something that they desire. The sahaba and sahabiyat had no love for this dunya. They were not obsessed with having degrees, women, big houses, being successful. When they used to get married, they didn't go around the world for their honeymoon. Sahaba loved their wives, but they would give them up in a split second for the sake of Allah. Nowadays when a man get married, he wouldn't even travel out of his country for the sake of Allah cuz he got a nice wife at home who needs him, he has kids he needs to take care of etc. Do you really think it is wise for such a man to go get another wife, only so he can have more excuses to sit at home? None of us are anythign like sahaba, but yet desire to have the priveleges they had.

hassanm
06-01-2007, 04:47 PM
I agree with you. Women also are nothing like the sahabiyat. The thing that bothers me when I see men and women following the sahaba when it comes getting something that they desire. The sahaba and sahabiyat had no love for this dunya. They were not obsessed with having degrees, women, big houses, being successful. When they used to get married, they didn't go around the world for their honeymoon. Sahaba loved their wives, but they would give them up in a split second for the sake of Allah. Nowadays when a man get married, he wouldn't even travel out of his country for the sake of Allah cuz he got a nice wife at home who needs him, he has kids he needs to take care of etc. Do you really think it is wise for such a man to go get another wife, only so he can have more excuses to sit at home? None of us are anythign like sahaba, but yet desire to have the priveleges they had.

The previlige is legalized by Allah, you can not take it or put conditions on it, more than what Allah has put. You can not say that a person does not pray tahajjud or fasts Mondays and Thursdays, so he should not marry more than one.(as an example). The right of men to marry more than 1 wife according to Quran and Sunnah was not exclusive for sahabah as being previlige. By this logic can we say that we should not eat meat, that Allah allowed us to eat, because we are not like Sahbah?

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 04:55 PM
oh ho, you are not getting it! Ever heard of the "right time" No one has the right to condemn a man who gets married more than once and no one can rebuke him for it. But I simply think some of practices should be practiced at the right time and by the right people. Some things should not be done simply based on desires, they should be done using some hikmah, that's all. Sure, if any of the guys really want 4 wives, go for it. But please don't forget the other duties of a man. And if you believe that marrying more than once is going to hinder your contribution to this ummah, cuz you're just too busy pleasing wives, then please don't get married. Anyway,it's just my opinion. I'm not enforcing it on anyone. So akhi hassanm if you want to have 4 wives, mashAllah, you can aim for such a goal.

hassanm
06-01-2007, 05:04 PM
oh ho, you are not getting it! Ever heard of the "right time" No one has the right to condemn a man who gets married more than once and no one can rebuke him for it. But I simply think some of practices should be practiced at the right time and by the right people. Some things should not be done simply based on desires, they should be done using some hikmah, that's all. Sure, if any of the guys really want 4 wives, go for it. But please don't forget the other duties of a man. And if you believe that marrying more than once is going to hinder your contribution to this ummah, cuz you're just too busy pleasing wives, then please don't get married. Anyway,it's just my opinion. I'm not enforcing it on anyone. So akhi hassanm if you want to have 4 wives, mashAllah, you can aim for such a goal.

Right time, right people. I have not heard of such condition from scholars of Quran and Sunnah, so I applogize for not being aware of it. Also can you tell me what other islamic practices are limited to right time and right people?

I can not marry 4 wives, because my current wife would kill me after second marriage, so I would not live to marry more.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 05:15 PM
Suppose a 17 year old kid who has no knowledge of his deen and lives in a war zone and does not have understanding nor the hikmah of dealing with 4 wives, comes to you and asks you if its a good idea to get married to 4 wives (suppose he has lots of money through inheritance and can therefore support 4 wives) , would you say it's okay as long as its halal?

hassanm
06-01-2007, 05:30 PM
Suppose a 17 year old kid who has no knowledge of his deen and lives in a war zone and does not have understanding nor the hikmah of dealing with 4 wives, comes to you and asks you if its a good idea to get married to 4 wives (suppose he has lots of money through inheritance and can therefore support 4 wives) , would you say it's okay as long as its halal?

Allah puts condition in Quran, for men marrying more than 1 wife, to do justice among them. I would not dare to add/subtract from what Allah has said. If there were more conditions necessary, Allah would have put them.

(if you think deeper, the kid you described would not be able to fulfill what Allah has put condition. Verily Allah's speech is the best and comprehensive)

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 06:13 PM
Okay, your entitled to your opinion. I don't think you have convinced me of your opinion nor I have convinced you of mine. So lets agree to disagree.

hassanm
06-01-2007, 07:20 PM
Okay, your entitled to your opinion. I don't think you have convinced me of your opinion nor I have convinced you of mine. So lets agree to disagree.

No I disagree to agree to disagree. Its not matter of my opinion vs your opinion. You are talking about islamic legislation, where mine or your opinion does not count. What I have stated is from Quran, how can you not agree to that? If what you have stated also has evidences from Quran and Sunnah, please feel free to share.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 08:25 PM
No I disagree to agree to disagree. Its not matter of my opinion vs your opinion. You are talking about islamic legislation, where mine or your opinion does not count. What I have stated is from Quran, how can you not agree to that? If what you have stated also has evidences from Quran and Sunnah, please feel free to share.

Please can you provide me some proof of what I have stated goes against Islam in anyway? I just think there are right time (and wise time) to practice polygymy. And beside, polygymy isn't fard. So it's not like i'm saying you should have a right time to obey Allah. I'm simply saying this privelege (with tons of responsibility) should be practiced safely. If someone gets married to 2 wives at a time when Allah has ordered him to fulfill greater obligations, is not a wise thing to do. BUT again, it's not haram, nor is it wrong. It's simply not a wise thing to do. I didn't say the concept of polygymy is stupid, astaghfurAllah, or that it should never be practiced.

And anyway many scholors considered polygymy to be simply mubah, not mustahabb.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-01-2007, 08:30 PM
Many women don't like polygymy and it's halal to dislike something Allah has legislated as long as you don't dislike the fact that He legislated it.

uestion:
What is the ruling on a woman hating polygyny because of jealousy, since jealousy is something natural in women, and we read of the jealousy of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) concerning the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? So where do we stand? I have learned from reading some books that hating one of the rulings of sharee’ah is tantamount to kufr.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

A woman’s jealousy concerning her husband is something that is innate and natural, and you cannot tell a woman, “Do not feel jealous over your husband.” If a person dislikes something even though it is prescribed in sharee’ah, that does not adversely affect him, so long as he does not hate the fact that it is prescribed. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Jihaad (holy fighting in Allaah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you…” [al-Baqarah 2:216]

The woman who feels jealous does not hate the fact that Allaah has allowed her husband to marry more than one woman, but she hates to have a co-wife. There is an obvious difference between the two matters. Hence I hope that the brother who has asked this question, and other people, will think carefully about matters and not rush to judgement; I hope that that they will recognize the subtle differences whereby rulings differ.

hassanm
06-01-2007, 11:53 PM
Why are we talkiing about polygamy??

Its a right a man was given by Allah swt and if he thinks he can fulfill the condition then GO FOR IT..

How many men have you seen with more then 2 wives? i havent seen any so its really not as wide practice (hence the problems our ummah is facing worldwide of soo many divorced and widow sisters only because of our selfishness and whether we like it or not, this crisis wont be resolved until we allow polygamy)

Yes I do not see any benefit of discussing it beyond academics, as long as it is established from Quran and Sunnah. What is halal is halal and what is haram is haram, and Allah has legislated it. I think less than 0.2% of al-maghrib forum users may be actually involved in it.

hassanm
06-02-2007, 12:01 AM
Please can you provide me some proof of what I have stated goes against Islam in anyway? I just think there are right time (and wise time) to practice polygymy. And beside, polygymy isn't fard. So it's not like i'm saying you should have a right time to obey Allah. I'm simply saying this privelege (with tons of responsibility) should be practiced safely. If someone gets married to 2 wives at a time when Allah has ordered him to fulfill greater obligations, is not a wise thing to do. BUT again, it's not haram, nor is it wrong. It's simply not a wise thing to do. I didn't say the concept of polygymy is stupid, astaghfurAllah, or that it should never be practiced.

And anyway many scholors considered polygymy to be simply mubah, not mustahabb.

I never said marrying more than one is fardh, I just disputed the fact that you are legislating more conditions on it beyond what Allah has. And proof is the ayah mentioned in this thread somewhere, where Allah says (parapharasing), marry 2,3, 4, unless a person not being able to do justice, then marry only one. By the way I do not understand why burden of proof is on me? Should not it be on you who is putting conditions? What if I say something like apples are halaal only if you buy in summer time? Who should bring proof, me or the person who is objecting to it?

As far as wisdom is concerned, having wisdom is blessing of Allah, that is not exclusive thing for multiple wives, or even single wife, but for every issue a common man may face in his life (work, studies, business, buying homes etc). But again, Allah does not mention it as condition for marrying more.

What are the "greater obligations" that you think would be jeopardized by person marrying multiple wives? Are there other mubah things (like eating meat, wearing green or blue) that can jeopardize "greater obligations"?

hassanm
06-02-2007, 12:03 AM
Many women don't like polygymy and it's halal to dislike something Allah has legislated as long as you don't dislike the fact that He legislated it.

Thats between you and Allah if you dislike it. I guess this was the issue all along, not wisdom thingy, you should have said so earlier.

Zawjatu_Zakaria
06-02-2007, 04:02 PM
Thats between you and Allah if you dislike it. I guess this was the issue all along, not wisdom thingy, you should have said so earlier.

That was in reply to ZammZamm.

And you are simply not getting it. No where did I say that I am putting conditions on it. AGAIN. No where did I say i'm putting conditions on it. Do you think it's haram when a parent tells his son to marry after he has his degree ?? Would you accuse that parent of commiting kufr? Sure he can move on and get married anyway, but it's a simple suggestion that has some wisdom.

Anyway, this is my last post on this subject. This argument is a waste of time, as no one is benefitting from it.

Allah Knows Best.

hassanm
06-02-2007, 08:47 PM
That was in reply to ZammZamm.

And you are simply not getting it. No where did I say that I am putting conditions on it. AGAIN. No where did I say i'm putting conditions on it. Do you think it's haram when a parent tells his son to marry after he has his degree ?? Would you accuse that parent of commiting kufr? Sure he can move on and get married anyway, but it's a simple suggestion that has some wisdom.

Anyway, this is my last post on this subject. This argument is a waste of time, as no one is benefitting from it.

Allah Knows Best.

Ok. You may wanna go over your posts in this thread and you did not answer many of my questions. Thats ok.

Bint Roots
06-02-2007, 08:52 PM
This thread has exhausted the purpose it was created for and has added very little to no benefit lately. Unless Ustadh wants to give advice, he can open the thread. This thread is now closed