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craving-jannah
04-11-2007, 11:21 AM
It is not permissible for a Muslim man to date a non-mahram woman and go out with her, because Allaah has forbidden the believers to do that as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Made lawful to you this day are At?Tayyibaat [all kinds of Halaal (lawful) foods, which Allaah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits)]. The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends. And whosoever disbelieves in Faith, [i.e. in the Oneness of Allaah and in all the other Articles of Faith i.e. His (Allaah’s) Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al?Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work; and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers”

[al-Maa'idah 5:5]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No man is ever alone with a (non-mahram) women but the Shaytaan is the third one present.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2165; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1758)

Allahualum.

Hala
04-11-2007, 11:57 AM
I said having a girl friend without intercourse. The verse you quoted, the girlfriend is translated as "secret concubines" by Pickthall, "paramounts in secret" both of which mean sexual intercourse. I know the saudi version translates it as girlfriends.

Can a scholar please clarify this?If you want to get to know her for marriage, have her father or brother come or a mahram of hers come with you.

“No man is ever alone with a (non-mahram) women but the Shaytaan is the third one present.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2165; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1758)

AbdulHasib
04-11-2007, 12:09 PM
Well before even answering that question..

2 questions... -)

What are the goals of the one who is dating, and he/she states it is not for intercourse/indecency?

What are they trying to achieve with that?

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 12:27 PM
As-salamualaikum

What's the proof for dating being haram (without intercourse)? Isn't being single more immoral (for the one who can't marry) since it can lead to fornication?

Many Thanks.

Define "dating" and the purpose of this "dating" first, according to what you mean in this question. It's a very ambiguous discussion until you do so.

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 01:36 PM
By dating, I mean't exactly what it is meant here in the west except without sexual intercourse.


The goal is companionship for someone who can't afford marriage nor wants the troubles that come with it. The individuals doesn't want kids either which if he married, his spouse will ask for.

LOL, sounds like you want a permanently celibate marriage. Insha'Allah, Shaykh Yaser will answer the question :D

Siraaj

ammatu'rahman
04-11-2007, 01:39 PM
I also don't see why Islam can't accomodate this (since it's suppose to be for all times). The individuals who can't marry nor dates will end up doing things much more indecent (such as pornography and fornication).

I know a friend from school who prays 5 times a day (on time), reads Quran every morning, fasts, doesn't free-mix nor talk to women etc. BUT doesn't date and he ended up fornicating twice and fears he will do it atleast 10 more times until his family would allow him to marry (28+).first of all dating does not help prevent zinah rather it makes it more available and when you're in a "relationship" it is not always called zinah it is called love or other name that will make you feel not as giulty
and if a "relegious " person does such a thing then i would suspect his religiousness http://forums.almaghrib.org/images/icons/icon13.gif not his religioun
ps.. when you find out somthing is haram don't say how haram is it Haram is Haram.

sadiav
04-11-2007, 02:11 PM
What about lowering the gaze? If you are not even allowed to look at the woman, how can you date her. We should remember that zinna is not just physical intercourse, there is also zinna of the eyes, which is also haraam

The issue of khulwah has already been mentioned. When a man and woman are alone together, shaytaan is the 3rd with them. Again, if you are not even allowed to be alone together, how can you date

Also something interesting to note, check 17:32, Allah SWT does not say to us "do not do zina", rather He SWT commands us not to even come close to zinna. Dating involves many things that can open the door to zinna. Being alone with a woman, speaking with her freely, developing feelings, declaring feelings, thinking you are in love, feeling lust..these are all things that can open the door to zinna, whether one intends to or not. In Usool al Fiqh we learnt when something is haraam, all avenues leading to it are also haraam

craving-jannah
04-11-2007, 02:31 PM
What about lowering the gaze? If you are not even allowed to look at the woman, how can you date her. We should remember that zinna is not just physical intercourse, there is also zinna of the eyes, which is also haraam

Just to add to that,
Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: “I have never heard any better definition of ‘small faults’ [al-Najm 53:32] than that which Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): ‘Allaah has decreed for every son of Adam his share of zinaa, and there is no way to escape from it. The zinaa of the eye is a glance, the zinaa of the tongue is speaking, and the zinaa of the mind is wishing and hoping; then the private part either acts upon this or it does not.’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 11/26; Muslim, 4/2046).

Abu Hurayrah
04-11-2007, 02:32 PM
I'd like to point out the brother is just asking for evidence. Only a few people have brought any up. I don't agree with him, obviously, but at least answer his question.

I have one concern about your approach to this issue, akhee - you are taking examples of people that fell to their desires as examples of why the ruling on dating being haraam must be incorrect. Should selling of alcohol be permitted if someone cannot make as much money as if they do so?

What allowances can be we make? What can we not compromise? Where is there flex in the shari`ah, and where is there only one option?

I think, if you're really interested in these points, you should look into taking Usool ul-Fiqh with Yaser Birjas. These issues and so much more are discussed, and you'll have a far greater understanding of why certain rulings exist.

Also, I know you're not trying to tell us that one example of a "religious" person validates your entire point. I don't know why you brought that up.

Indeed, though, Islam is for all times - but people have to be willing to exert some control on their desires too. Dating is haraam for, amongst other reason, the fact that it encourages, rather than discourages, immoral behavior, as one sister said. And for controlling desires, there is, in fact, a hadeeth of the Prophet Muhammad, salallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, wherein he advised young people to marry, and if they couldn't marry, to fast, which would weaken their sexual desires. There you have the Islamically prescribed solution for young people that cannot marry.

The problem you're describing, though, is greater - parents not allowing their children to marry young. This should be the point you're arguing, and not that of allowing dating. This is the true problem.

AbdulHasib
04-11-2007, 02:54 PM
The goal is companionship for someone who can't afford marriage nor wants the troubles that come with it. The individuals doesn't want kids either which if he married, his spouse will ask for.The reason why I ask this question is, the one who asked in origin may not be in full realization of the goal and purpose of existance itself. Thus it causes him/her to give priority to a goal other than this..

If he/she were to ponder over his/her own purpose, what would that be?

The Creator, Himself, states that we've been created only to worship Him..

In our daily lives, our transactions, communally, publically, privately, individually, and in our relationships; they are all but a manifestation of worshipping and submitting to Him.

Thus, we ask the questioner kindly.. is Islam not meaning submission, obedience, and peace?

This entails that the one WHOM submits, whom obeys, and whom is at peace.. IS a Muslim.

And no peace shall be attained without the submission and obedience.

The questioner may be even sincere in his/her question, but we ask in return, is Allah not enough for him/her? Has he/she found an alternative from The Divine?

If he/she truly wishes good out of this, and knows a Creator whose attributes and names are among The Most Merciful, The Most Compassionate, The All Aware, The All Seeing, The All Hearing, The Divine, The Manifest... is he/she neglectful of Him? Selfish of Him?

We ask that the questioner reflect truly and deeply.

If it is but sincerety that he/she asks the question, that know others more sincere have asked..

And those are among the COMPANIONS of Muhammad salAllahu 'alaihee wa sallam who asked the question recorded by

Abu Umamah saying that a young man came to the Prophet and said, "Oh Messenger of Allah! Give me the permission to commit zina (unlawful sex). The people surrounded him and rebuked him, saying, "Stop! Stop!" But the Prophet said, "Come close." The young man came to him, and he said, "Sit down," so he sat down. The Prophet said, "Would you like it (unlawful sex) for your mother?" He said, "No, by Allah, may I be ransomed for you." The Prophet said, "Neither do the people like it for their mothers." The Prophet said, "Would you like it for your daughter?" He said, "No, by Allah, may I be ransomed for you." The Prophet said, "Neither do the people like it for their daughters." The Prophet said, "Would you like it for your sister?" He said, "No, by Allah, may I be ransomed for you." The Prophet said, "Neither do the people like it for their sisters." The Prophet said, "Would you like it for your paternal aunt?" He said, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Messenger! May I be ransomed for you." The Prophet said, "Neither do the people like it for their paternal aunts." The Prophet said, "Would you like it for your maternal aunt?" He said, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Messenger! May I be ransomed for you." The Prophet said, "Neither do the people like it for their maternal aunts." Then the Prophet put his hand on his chest and said, "O Allah, forgive his sin, purify his heart, and guard his chastity." After that the young man never paid attention to anything of that nature. (Musnad Ahmed)

And this young man, it shows even HE loved Allah and His Messenger, and truly his sincerety and love drove him to what is the truth..

So we ask the questioner, likewise.. would they prefer that for their mother? their sister? their aunts?

"Neither do the people like it for their mothers, sisters, and aunts."

Know that Our Creator, The One and Only, The Everliving, The Forgiving, is also the The Most Just, and anything that is decreed for us is beautiful and for ease. They are Beautiful Limits, and in one way or another at the very least the benefits outweigh the consequences if not overcome them. They are as He 'azza wa jal has said, for ease and verily not for hardships.

And we say to the questioner, ask yourself truly; "is what i am asking about.. on the Day of Judgement when the deeds will be weighed on the scale, is this going to go on the side of Truth? or the side of Falsehood?"

We ask the questioner to sincerely beseech his Lord and seek His mercy and seek from Him of the permissable that He has made allowed for him/her.

Because the Prophet salAllahu 'alaihee wa sallam has said that for the one who wishes to satiate his thirst for companionship and save his chastity, Allah, The Creator of all that exists, will be his/her helper.

And in final we ask Allah 'azza wa jal and sincerely make the supplication "O Allah, forgive his sin, purify his heart, and guard his chastity."

We all wish good for our brothers and sisters, may Allah give you what is best and seek nearness to Him, because in Him do we find rest, and without Him we only find distress, worry, and regret..

And Allah knows best..

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Lastly,

It might be that not-dating is an Arabian custom of 7th century where marriage was affordable (since people didn't need much of an education to work). Today, when you go to school for 22 years minimum, plus 4 years of work experience to become financially stable for marriage (i.e. 26 years bare minimum), then this is the only solution I can see. Unless, someone can still prove to me from authentic texts that it is prohibited in Islam. There is a verse that says Allah doesn't burden one more than it can bare. Well, I know non-practicing Muslims who are much more decent than the Muslim ones (in terms of sexuality ONLY) since the later chose not to date and fell into pornography, fornication, and may Allah forbid - homosexuality.

Thoughts?

Akhi, your moniker on the forms is MuslimEngineer, so I assume you're well-grounded in math and logic (unless you're an industrial engineer, which we called Imaginary Engineering at Purdue :D).

So did the practicing Muslim brother just walk up to a girl and randomly fornicate with her? Did he first get to know her and then fornicate? What's the story here?

REQUEST FROM ALL OTHER POSTERS: Can I have a few sessions of one-on-one discussion with the brother? I can't PM him. I just have a few questions, no evidences and rulings to offer. That's for Shaykh Yaser.

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 05:20 PM
No he went to a prostitute. He doesn't free mix or talk to girls as he was told it was haram. He also doesn't have many friends etc, so he had two choices 1) Commit Suicide out of frustration 2) Release the energy by fornicating. He did the later (the first one take you to hell - not worth it).

So from this you would conclude that the solution to preventing fornication is talking and mixing?

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 05:25 PM
Anyways, I've read what people have wrote and I do agree that dating is most likely haram and it is going to take me some time to understand why Islam makes it so difficult.

Sure, you can go ahead get married and have kids, good family etc. But you'll be less educated and very unstable. This is why Muslims are the least educated in the world and biggest failure in the world (since a Muslim's life has come down to simply *getting married* and having a good family). They have no other goal (dunya wise) - ofcourse you have the religious goal of getting Paradise. This generalization can be confirmed by looking at non-practicing Muslims who more successful while practising Muslims are the least (if at all).

There must be a solution to this. Muslims used to excel at the dunya too 300 years ago. I don't know how they did that while being married at an early age (if they did that ?) or whether they dated. I know clubs, etc. were around all the time.

Allah Knows Best.

Another question - does a person need to have ambitions beyond having a happy family life to be considered successful? A more higher level question - do all people have the same definition of successful? Is there a standard that we all have to follow? And if so, who decides it?

Siraaj

Sarah Mushtaq
04-11-2007, 06:09 PM
I had to jump in here.

Brother, with all due respect, ISLAM is PERFECT, we HUMANS are NOT. Muslims are in a bad state but Islam is still right.

Now, an analogy about dating from a Non-Muslim Lady who came to my high school. She said that when you date, you give your heart to one person, then break up, so a part of your heart is with that person. Then you move on, and you're constantly giving pieces of your heart to all these people. When you decide to get married, you only have a small portion of your heart left to give to your spouse. Now looking at what Islam says. We aren't supposed to have any pre-marital relations. When we get married, we can then give our spouses our whole, PURE hearts, InshaAllah ta'ala.

There are always going to be temptations everywhere but that is a TEST from Allah (swt) and how we deal with them is up to US. There is NO WAY that any one of us has NEVER done Haram! We have to fight Shaitaan all the time!

Do what Allah (swt) commanded and TRUST him. He created us so HE knows what is best for us.

Also, don't judge what that brother did. Hide his sin and make du'a that he will never do it again. If he did a haram act, that doesn't mean it's okay for me or you to do a haram act.

May Allah (swt) protect us all! Ameen:)

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 07:04 PM
Not from this incident alone. Those who free-mix are much more chaste and clear headed than those who don't.

Here is a question to honest brothers here: Can anyone here claim they are single and don't do haram? Such people are very few. I've only met one - he is a robot, not all of us are robots. Thank you...

To be fair, would it be accurate to say that most people who stay away from intermingling with the opposite gender come close to committing suicide, turn to prostitution, or some variant of fornication?

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-11-2007, 07:12 PM
If Muslims are ever gonna be more than just Bedouins, than you need to have higher goals to atleast be even with others in the world. Otherwise, we have no reason to complain why we get bombarded. The kuffar are clearly better than us - no question. If every Jew can be successful, than so can every Muslim. Infact, we have been though Golden Ages. It's only in the last 300 years... and I've noticed it's early marriages which is a factor (although not the only one).

The standard? At least be as good as caucasians and other civilizations in the world. Being as good as Jews? That can be bonus points.

What I'm gathering from this is that your definition of success is that we excel in the secular world in terms of education, riches, and technology to the point we are better than the nonMuslims.

Is the believing bedouin with his happy family and dies a believer with nothing more to his name successful, or is the technological, secular nonMuslim who dies a nonMuslim successful? I'd go with the bedouin.

The Jahilliyyah Arabs did not come to material success until after they accepted and lived Islam. Why will present-day Muslims achieve material success when they are in the majority not willing to do what brought them that material success - live Islam?

Siraaj

ikhlaas
04-11-2007, 07:58 PM
MuslimEngineer, just wanted to point out that you always have this option (in case you didn't know):

http://forums.almaghrib.org/showpost.php?p=161449&postcount=17

Sorry Siraaj for the intrusion, you guys can continue.

Abu Hurayrah
04-11-2007, 09:12 PM
I'd like to recommend that we let Siraaj continue talking, per his request. He'll give us the green light when he's had his say. He knows what he's talking about, so let's just let this play out, and see where it goes, in shaa Allaah.

AbuAmani
04-11-2007, 09:38 PM
Instead of focusing on what the minority of people do why not look at the successful majority that do not fall in to immoral acts.
If your looking for the ayat hat says "Don't date." you will not find it. If your looking for the action pleasing to Allah you will find that.

Sabiqoon
04-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Bismillaah,
I had to jump in as I looked at this thread.

TO tackle your first question of why dating is haraam. Dating (-intercourse) would constitute touching and we are not even allowed to shake hands. Secondly, there is an ayah in the Qur'aan which was revealed for the situation of one man who did something less than fornication, it is an ayah talking about forgiveness for those who repent and how their bad deeds are turned into good deeds, as the man had repented. Give me some time and I will look it up for you.

Thirdly, you started off about why dating is haraam and our frustration and early marriage being a reason for our decline in the dunya, etc. etc.

since you agree that dating is haraam(there is evidence from the tafseer of the ayaat of the Qur'aan) but you want a solution.

You think that intermingling and stuff can prevent you from doing haraam stuff:
well, I think the boredom and the sheer lounging around of men in muslim countries and here is what is causing the excess time to do haraam.

Instead if single guys were too busy doing quantum physics, medicine, engineering(even) etc than they would have less time to do haraam stuff and that would also coincidently include dating.

The problem does lie in our giving up islaam.
If we do waste our time
If we do not fast and
we do not have anymore prisoners of war. This is not present in this age anymore, hence, solution is marriage, if the person has exausted their time to fast or to read quantum physics or to engage in sports or other activities.

And who says guy has to ask parent's permission, desis or not.




I think the problem is not early marriages but wasting time and too much time on your hand.

There are successful American non-muslims in medical school that married early or are married and have kids. There is also something called family planning.
Non-muslims live with their miscellenous others, what about that? and that does not hinder them from success. Your assertation that early marriages in the ummah dwindles the goal(worldy, albeit) of the people is illfounded.

Abu Hurayrah
04-11-2007, 11:54 PM
I already have come to know it's haram through this discussion. Now, I am looking for a solution which is well needed especially because it's not the minority but the majority involved in immoral acts. I would say at least 90% of single men on this forum themselves are indulged in it (and 99.99% people here masterbate). So let's consider the reality and see what Islam really teaches since God doesn't burden a soul more than it can bear and denying the burden is a gross lie and exagerration.Brother, you seem sincere, but can I offer you some advice - take it easy on the assumptions, assertions, and aggression. Maybe it is unintentional, but by my perception, you are coming off as unnecessarily hostile. If you are truly looking for an Islamic solution, act in the manner of a seeker of knowledge rather than as someone trying to make a point. Your style of argumentation can really put some people off.

I think, if you heed my advice, others will comment and propose solutions. However, your responses to some have likely discouraged others from chiming in.

I am saying this only to be helpful, so I hope you'll take it in the manner it was given - as naseeha - sincere advice.

AbuAmani
04-12-2007, 12:13 AM
I already have come to know it's haram through this discussion. Now, I am looking for a solution which is well needed especially because it's not the minority but the majority involved in immoral acts. I would say at least 90% of single men on this forum themselves are indulged in it (and 99.99% people here masterbate). So let's consider the reality and see what Islam really teaches since God doesn't burden a soul more than it can bear and denying the burden is a gross lie and exagerration.What is haram is haram. If you now understand this then the solution to your problem is to leave off this pursuit. If you have not tried fasting, then fast for several days. Do not think that this will be an easy obsticle to overcome. The Prophet (s) said “I did not leave behind me any greater fitnah (trial, temptation) for men than women.” (Agreed upon. From the hadeeth of Usaamah ibn Zayd, may Allaah be pleased with them both).

"Should He not know what He has created ? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All-Aware of everything.” al-Mulk 67:14

Allah (swt) has created us and placed in us desier for certian things. At the same time he has given us a way to fulfil those desires in a way that is good for us.

Just to clarify the ayat you are refering to:
"On no soul does Allah place a burden greater that it can bear. It gets every good that it ears, and suffers every ill that it earns." 2:286
This ayat is not an excause for us to say such and such is too much for me so I can be exempt from it. The correct meaning is that the obligations and prohibitions that Allah has put on us and not more than we can bear. This is a basic rule of accountability (takleef). The requirments of Islam are within the abilities of all of us. Yes, some obligations are harder than others, but can we really expect jannah to be a cheap prize?

"And do not near zina. Verily, it is fahishah [anything that trangresses its limits(a great sin)], and an evil way" 17:32

"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts). That is purer for them. Verily, Allaah is All-Aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent” al-Noor 24:30-31

Siraaj
04-12-2007, 01:22 AM
Not true, he left the girl crying after he did the act. This happended TWICE.

You had mentioned that this person turned to a prostitute. Who was this girl or girls he left crying twice? Same person, or different?

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-12-2007, 01:42 AM
I'd say most of hose who do not mingle go through one of the following, if not all (no particular order):

1) Boredom / Depression
2) Masterbation
2) Pornography addiction
3) Prostitution
...

Since I am posting under an anomonoyous I.D., so it's not "exposing your sins" which you aren't suppose to do. When I mingled, I didn't do pornography. When I stopped, I have to do it every 3rd or 4th to stay alive. This is what all single men do anyways (or masterbation at least which is also haram).

So lets be realistic.

From your posts so far, what I've gathered from this discussion is that your desi parents won't allow you to get married until you complete school and have some job experience. The time needed to complete all this is sexually frustrating you, and you believe that the rules of Islam, which prevent you from social contact with the opposite gender, are the root cause of the problem. In your mind, the rules taught by scholars or callers to Islam are archaic, out-of-touch with the modern day reality, and this is why the burden is too hard to bear, and in fact, on a side note, why Muslims in general are in such a depraved state.

The problem is not with Islam. You're looking to fix your problems in the wrong places. As was mentioned earlier, if people returned to Islam, the problems of the Muslims would be resolved. Your issue is a microcosm of the concept. Generally speaking, Islam strongly encourages marriage when financially able, and from the post provided by others, also gives you the option of the celibate marriage in case you are not financially able, allowing you to interact with someone of the opposite gender in a lawful manner. And, of course, if no options are available, fasting is recommended.

The root cause for you appears to be desi culture. Desi culture is the culprit for delayed marriages and the denial of celibate marriages, which would give you what you want (mingling with the opposite gender) in a lawful fashion, until you're ready to support yourself. I know desis who have overcome this barrier with their families, and have found it to be very good for them.

Would you say that's pretty accurate of your situation? If not, what mistakes have I made?

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-12-2007, 07:34 AM
Yes, except I think parents are right in asking their children not to marry early. They've gone though what we have and know better.

The concept of a true celibate marriage tends not to be one of those things they've known about, and one which they do not consider when brought up because typically, they want the nikah contract signed at the rukhsati rather than any actual benefit based on experience.

Further, most desi parents are not 2nd or 3rd generation and did not grow up in North America, and have to deal with all its social norms and mores, and they did not have to deal with this highly sexually charged culture. Even the 60s, 70s, and 80s in this country were nowhere near what the 90s and 00s were.

You're free to choose the advice you believe best, but don't make the rules and recommendations of Allah subhaana wa ta'aala the scapegoat when the limiting factor is not Islam (which offers lawful options for both the one who can and cannot afford marriage), but rather, the family mentality towards marriage.

Siraaj

PS - If anyone has the book by Shaykh Yasir Qadhi 15 Ways to Make Money According to the Qur'aan and Sunnah, it would be nice if they posted what was said in that book about how marriage does not decrease wealth, but rather increases wealth, and what Allah subhaana wa ta'aala said in the Qur'aan regarding this, what the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallim said regarding this, and what the Companions said regarding this (all from that book).

Siraaj
04-12-2007, 07:37 AM
I'd go with the bedouin too in the absolute sense but Muslims are suppose to excel both at dunya and akhira. Practising Muslims of the last 300 years have been the biggest failure and we have to find out why? You say it's because we are not living Islam. This is what the tabligis say as well. But Muslims didn't live Islam any better when we WERE successful. It's just our parents, teachers etc teach us so but if you look at history, all the evils present in society today were always present.

So it's not the lack of spirtuality. It depends from person to person. It's another reason. This new Bedioun culture of sitting around all day and doing nothing (just goto any Muslim country from Indonesia to Moroco). Only one thing is common between all these cultures - they are ALL Muslims (so you can't say it's a racial thing). [Iran is the only exception] even the Turks are bedouins after trying so hard at being secular. A lot of it is the American / Zionist think tanks and their efforts and subduing Muslims but I felt marrying early was another (which is why I mentioned it in this thread).

Your argument is regarding practicing Muslims, but the majority of Muslims are not practicing Muslims as you're defining it to begin with, and they too are in the same state, so what is the explanation for that?

Siraaj

HopefulMuslimah
04-12-2007, 07:47 AM
- i.e. female companionship is a necessity, not a want (it might've been a want you we were younger).

by making such a statement and saying there is no other solution but doing haraam, it feels like as if you are saying that Allah is unjust in his rulings by making these things haraam when according to you people "cant live without it". subhana Allah.
Allah is the creator, so He subhanahu wata'ala knows your NEEDS more than you or anybody else does. and Allah doesn't want you to sin which is why your only options wouldn't be either "sin" or "live misrably with wife and kids and be uneducated".
Allah is the most just and its only befitting if you saw Him as the MOST JUST (Al-Adil).

akhi, I don't know if you have been reading the replies but if you have NO other option watsoever, then fast insha Allah, that will deminish your desires!!!!!!!

as for your friend praying Maghrib and going to such a place and committing such a great sin, I just dont get it.
Besides, to my understanding, people dont make such a HUGE sin all of a sudden, you always commit smaller sins that lead up to BIG sins. which is one of the reason why dating is not allowed.

Accepted and sincere Prayer prevents (Tanha) evil and indecent actions (munkar & fahshaaa). not sure of the exact surah & ayah #.

p.s. sorry bro Siraaj for my intruding

HopefulMuslimah
04-12-2007, 08:05 AM
Not to mention most women would only marry stable men (26+) who have fornicated at least a good number of times.


But I'll still try and if doesn't work, I'm simple going to date, period. Though it would be hard to find someone who'd date an Islamist.
your other problem is you keep talking for the whole men species, which is wrong of you. you should speak for yourself and only those that you associate with which are most likely gonna be people with similar ideas and life style.

go to your local mosque and trying to associate with some religious and commited brothers. insha Allah you wil find them to be different and obedient to their Lord.

so please refrain yourself from talking on behalf on men! is just not right.

Sabiqoon
04-12-2007, 08:29 AM
There is a difference between persisting in sin and doing soemthing in the past and repenting.
Even if brothers did a sin in the past if they are steadfast now then yes, they have become successsful. Because in Islaam, it is the now that matters not the then, or what it was before and after a person truely repents and never goes back to it then it is as if they never committed that sin.

Please understand that concept.

hassanm
04-12-2007, 08:52 AM
Slightly off topic, but I wanted to share this:


Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet, salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam, said,

“There is no believing slave [of Allah] except that he has a sin that he continually commits, from time to time, or a sin that he constantly does - it never leaves him until he leaves this world. Verily, the believer is created muftannan, tawwaban, nassaa`an - when he is reminded, he remembers.”

The Takhreej of the Hadeeth
The hadeeth is reported in the al-Mu`jam al-Kabeer of Abul Qasim Sulayman b. Ahmad b. Ayyub al-Tabarani (d. 360 A.H.).
Al-Tabarani was one of the last of the great huffadh (memorizers of hadeeth). He lived an extremely long life, dying a centenarian. Hence, in his later years, he could narrate ahadeeth from scholars who died a generation earlier than most of the other scholars of his time could narrate from. He wrote three famous works, all of them entitled al-Mu`jam (meaning: a book of hadeeth where the hadeeth are arranged according to the names of the Companions who narrated the hadeeth, or the teachers whom the author narrated the ahadeeth from). The largest of these three was called al-Mu`jam al-Kabeer, the middle one al-Mu`jam al-Awsat, and the smallest (not surprisingly) al-Mu`jam al-Sagheer. The most famous of these is the largest one - in its sole printed edition (edited by the great scholar Hamdi Abd al-Majeed al-Salafi), the number of ahadeeth is 21547. This edition utilized a manuscript that had three entire volumes missing (volumes 13 to 16), hence the printed work is incomplete, and no known complete manuscripts exist.
This makes al-Mu`jam al-Kabeer one of the largest collections of hadeeth in print. Al-Tabarani tried to narrate as many ahadeeth from each Companion that he could find, and in many cases he also narrated biographical information about them. Hence this work is an important treasure trove for information about the Companions of the Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam.

An Explanation of the Hadeeth
This hadeeth is a ray of light and a source of optimism for the believer. For there is no single believer amongst us who is perfect - how can he be, when perfection is for Allah alone? And there is no believer amongst us who is sinless, for it is only the angels who are sinless. In this hadeeth, the beloved Rasul salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam is reminding us that there will be sins that a believer does - notice that he called such a person a mu`min, a true believer, despite these sins. Furthermore, he pointed out that it is possible that a servant is tested with a particular sin that he has become addicted to, a sin that he continuously does until he dies.

The Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam then described such a believer with three characteristics, and stated that the believer has been created with them. Hence, to have these three characteristics is a sign of a true believer.

The first of them is that he is muftan, meaning he will be tried and tested. The implication from this description is that the believer has been created in order to be tried and tested, and of the ways he is tried and tested is through sins.
Trials and tribulations are of many types, some of them are worldly, others spiritual; some of them deal with physical pain, others cause mental anguish; some of them are losses of this material world, to see how patient we are, others are gains and blessings given to us, to see how we use them. In all cases, such fitan - such trials and tribulations - should draw us closer to Allah. Even if a sin has occurred, the true believer uses this sin to come closer to Allah.
But how can a sin be used to draw nearer to the very One whom he has disobeyed?
Through the act of repentance, tawbah. Hence, the next description given is that the believer is tawwab, meaning that he repents continuously, repeatedly, relentlessly. The believer does not become discouraged due to the quantity of sins that he commits, because he realizes that Allah’s mercy is infinite and limitless. The true mu`min is not demoralized by his past habits, but rather inspirited and uplifted by hopes of a grander future. The believer always remembers the encouraging words from his beloved Rasul salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam who said, “The one who repents from a sin is like one who has not committed it in the first place” (Reported by Ibn Majah in his Sunan). Thus, this second description given to the believer shows that the believer will always repent from his sins, regardless of how many times he has done other sins, or even this very sin, before the repentance.
The Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam then gave the third and final description of the believer, that he is nassaa`a, meaning that he continually forgets and relapses. Thus, the believer becomes heedless of the commandments of Allah, oblivious to the realities of the afterlife, and, when tempted by what he perceives to be a pleasing and sweet deed, falls prey to the seductions of Shaytan, and swallows that poisonous sweet. But as soon as the deed has been committed, and the outer layer of sweetness dissolves, it is followed up by the bitter aftertaste of the poison and pollutant that he has just ingested.

But not all hope is lost, for all such deeds can be undone, once again through repentance - that greatest gift of Allah to the sinners! The believer feels this guilt, and all that is needed is a prodding, perhaps he hears a verse being recited, or attends a lecture that stirs him, or listens to a khutbah that reminds him of his spiritual bankruptcy. So, ‘…when he is reminded, he remembers’, because he has an inner core of good, a repository of taqwa that need only be exposed and brought out in order to cause this change in him.

And so the believer is ever in a cycle - an perpetual, never-ending cycle - of committing sins, and then repenting, and then falling headless and committing sins again, only to be reminded of his purpose in life, after which he will repent, and fall into thoughtlessness once again, only to be prodded into action and good behavior…

So the cycle of life continues, and it is this life that characterizes the life of the believer, for the believer repents and strives to attain perfection, whereas the fasiq or hypocrite commits the same sins or worse, and cares little to better his situation.

What separates the mu`min from the fasiq is not the sin - both Adam and Iblees disobeyed Allah - but the reaction to the sin. Adam repented, and became beloved once again to Allah; Iblees obstinately persisted, and become the most accursed creation of Allah.

The battle of the believer is a never-ending one. He will perpetually fall into sins, but as long as he perpetually repents, and is reminded by the Speech of Allah and His Messenger, he is still a believer, and will continue to remain a believer, until he dies.

Always remember those uplifting words of the Basheer whom Allah sent to us, “Whoever is pleased with his good deeds, and saddened by his evil deeds, is indeed a mu`min” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi in his al-Jami).

May Allah grant us all Iman and taqwa, and bless us to be amongst those who, when tested, are patient, and when blessed, are thankful, and when sinful, are repentant. Ameen!

fevzy
04-12-2007, 08:56 AM
O MuslimEngineer,

I sincerely pray that Allah will guide you to the truth.

HayyaAlalFalah
04-12-2007, 09:13 AM
If Muslims are ever gonna be more than just Bedouins, than you need to have higher goals to atleast be even with others in the world. Otherwise, we have no reason to complain why we get bombarded. The kuffar are clearly better than us - no question. If every Jew can be successful, than so can every Muslim. Infact, we have been though Golden Ages. It's only in the last 300 years... and I've noticed it's early marriages which is a factor (although not the only one).

The standard? At least be as good as caucasians and other civilizations in the world. Being as good as Jews? That can be bonus points.assalamu alaykum,

May Allah SWT guide you inshallah. Islam makes life easy for those that practice it correctly and it shouldn't be a burden.

"Allah intends for you ease, and does not want to make things
difficult for you" [2:185]; and "Allah does not want to place you in
difficulty" [5:6].

Islam is perfect and Allah SWT has made Islam a religion suited for the nature of mankind.
"Do you think you have been created for nothing and that you will not
be resurrected and brought back to Allah again!" [23:115]. Allah SWT also
said: "Thinks man that he is left aimless?" [75:86].


"Islam is easy to practice; but those who do not understand the reasons
behind their existence, who do not understand the concepts of
religion, but meanwhile are striving to secure themselves in this
life; then surely they will find its practices difficult."

Furthermore the short story below illustrates how people sometimes do not realize that what they are aiming for in life is not as it seems--

The story of the fisherman----
An investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The investment banker complimented the fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The fisherman replied, "Only a little while."

The investment banker then asked, "Why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish?"

The fisherman said, "With this I have more than enough to support my family's needs."

The investment banker then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, spend time with my wife, stroll into the village each evening and spend time with my family, I have a full and busy life."

The investment banker scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing; and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat: With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor; eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to a big town and eventually to the the city where you will run your ever-expanding enterprise."

The fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"

To which the investment banker replied, "15 to 20 years."

"But what then?" asked the fisherman.

The investment banker laughed and said that's the best part. "When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions."

"Millions?...Then what?"

The investment banker said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, spend time with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings and spend time with your family."

So essentially----you shouldn't have "Rizq"ophobia and trust that Rizq will come from Allah SWT and stay away from haram.

Siraaj
04-12-2007, 09:22 AM
Well, they ARE more succesful but still garbage due to poor education in Muslim countries. The other reason was only one of the reasons (not the only, as I mentioned). American / Zionist think tanks closely monitor any development (if any) in the Muslim world and make sure Muslims remain crappy through their control of the Educational curriculum (which they have gained control through gain of Muslim governments who are corrupt). Any side track from their policies can lead to destruction of such countries - sanctions, etc.

Any if you look at Iran (and ANYONE whos knows Iranians can't deny this, it's a well established generalization) that they are clearly different than the rest of us bedouins and the only difference between them and the rest of us is that they aren't Muslim (mostly) - it's not their genes, or anything else. (i.e. Afghan Persians aren't like them).

How about UAE? As for Iran, Iran is run by hardline shi'as. Ahmednijad is simply a puppet of the Imams he follows, and by the way, Ahmenijad is considered "religious" and the West is trying to pull them down, but the difference is that they are not buckling to pressure.

Again, the problem you're pointing out is not a problem of religiosity. You're pointing out problems which have many external factors (government corruption being one of them) which will find their root in leaving Islam partially or totally.

Siraaj

Siraaj
04-12-2007, 09:34 AM
Well, I am trying to do secret marriage this summer which is almost impossible since most people (if not all) wouldn't give their daughter to some one who doesn't want to tell his parents. Not to mention most women would only marry stable men (26+) who have fornicated at least a good number of times.

But I'll still try and if doesn't work, I'm simple going to date, period.

Thank you everyone for your advises.

P.S: Fasting only reduces desire (doesn't remove it) nor does it remove loniless. I used to sin even during Ramadan when I fasted (except last Ramadan when I free-mixed with this girl and it DID clear my mind - too bad she didn't like me, meh.)

Well, here's the thing. You've come in here asking if dating is haraam, and we've had this long discussion. You're going through a difficulty which I remember going through (although, not to be immodest or something, but I never engaged in any of the behaviors you mentioned that men fall into, and I'm not a robot :D).

I hope that insha'Allah things work out for you in the best manner possible, but don't make the mistake of justifying any wrongful behavior. Take responsibility for yourself, admit your mistake, feel the guilt, and repent to Allah subhaana wa ta'aala. Try to take proactive measures to keep yourself from what you're doing (intermingling), and if it happens, then repent and try again to keep away.

Siraaj

PS - I've had my say, everyone else, please say what's on your mind (I know some said they couldn't control themselves and had to jump in, and that's interesting, because this discussion is all about self-control ;))

UmmSakinah
04-12-2007, 10:03 AM
O MuslimEngineer,

I sincerely pray that Allah will guide you to the truth.Ameen. I refrained from posting anything in this thread, but I only do so now just to second this dua.

One other advice from me if you wish to take it: Make dua to Allah to help you figure it out, sincerely make dua to Allah. No matter what we all say to you, if Allah does not will it, you will not 'see' it. Ask Allah.

This piece of advice stemmed from a dear sister who keeps telling wanna be Muslims to make sincere dua to God (whoever they think He is) to guide them to the truth and if they are sincere, inshaallah something good will come out of it.

May Allah help you.

Fouzia Usman/Quest
04-12-2007, 10:04 AM
So essentially----you shouldn't have "Rizq"ophobia and trust that Rizq will come from Allah SWT and stay away from haram.
What is the moral here ? Can someone clarify ?

Abu Sunnah
04-12-2007, 10:18 AM
Look, you are a sister, you wouldn't know.You're right, she's a sister and she won't know how much temptation men are faced with. But there's a difference between temptation and sin. And furthermore, she's 100% right in what she said. You can't talk for all men. Maybe in your city the situation is even worse than in others, but alhamdolilah other cities don't have problems like you mentioned.

Fornication and masturbation might be a problem during this time period, but so what? Every generation is faced with it's own problems. During the time of the sahaba (even after the prophet's death) alcohol and fornication were still amongst the people. Did the khulafa allow "dating" or "moderate drinking" to surface? Each generation's challenge is to see what the Quraan and Sunnah advise and then act upon it when faced with difficulties. This thread is full of suggestions for this generation's problem.

Fasting is a cure for sexual temptation, and I will attest to it. If you
a) fast WITH THE INTENTION of controling your desire and
b) fast consistantly no matter how hard it gets and no matter how much you think it doesn't work then inshAllah fasting will help you control your desires.
You should know, desire with ALWAYS be there, this is the way men are built. Your job is to control it. PERIOD.

I know many guys who mingled with women (were practically surrounded by girls and had several girlfriends) who would commit haraam acts such as you mentioned. But when religion found them, they turned to taqwa and left those actions simply because they feared the last day. It was still hard on them (are they not humans too?) but because they turned to Allah, Allah gave them ways to control their desires. All praise is due to Allah and Allah alone.

Another point I'd like to make is that dating in itself does not remove one's temptations. Marriage in itself doesn't remove it. Shaytan will come to you and make something that's haraam for you tempting and appealing. If you look at the world today you'll see so many relationships broken up because of infedility. Does this mean that we should outlaw marriage all together and live like animals (like in the book "A Brave New World")?

It's good to see people here opening up to reality and are now starting to quote hadeeths about forgiveness and basically accepting the problem.In no way does that mean that you can go out and do haraam and think "Allah will forgive me." That was a mistake that Prophet Yusuf's brothers made when they left him in the well. Repentance must be coupled with an effort to follow halaal means of preventing these problems.

Finally, You keep saying that you want guys to tell you if they don't masturbate or fornicate. If someone does masturbate or fornicate, why would they tell you? Allah has concealed their secret, and let them repent to Allah for their sins privately. And if there are brothers who do not do it, why would they come out and say it? They might be too shy or too modest to claim their chastity. Leave this issue and don't bring it up akhi.

Abu Hurayrah
04-12-2007, 10:23 AM
Lastly, AbuHurayra, thanks for the advice. The only thing which irritated me was that folks here giving the same old advise of busying yourself, do this, do that, etc. when I pointed out even after you do all that, you still sin - i.e. female companionship is a necessity, not a want (it might've been a want you we were younger).

So giving the same advises over and over (when you yourself aren't able to follow it), isn't that hypocrisy? I asked whether there are single men here who don't watch porn or masturbate and no one claimed this achievement (so far). So my challenge still stands...

Yes, haram is haram. But if you, your friends, and 99% of the other non-married Men are doing this haram, then don't go around preaching solutions. That was my point.First of all, even if one is performing a particular sin, if one knows it to be a sin and just falls into it, he should still encourage others to avoid it. Why wouldn't you? In fact, being a victim of a sin is even more of a reason to advise others to avoid it, because you've experienced it, regretted it, and don't wish others to repeat your mistake.

Before this post, a lot people have already addressed this point, so I won't go further on it.

As for being "open" about these issues, the Prophet Muhammad, salallaahu `alayhi wa sallam, derided those whose sins they would commit at night Allaah has concealed from other people, only to then talk about their sins during the day. So, even you are choosing an anonymous name to post under to discuss your sins, but it makes no sense for you to then expect us to talk about our own shortcomings, and in fact, it's a sin in and of itself, to talk about our sins openly.

That it happens, honestly, brother, everyone knows this. With regards to your statistics, I would doubt, but I think you are just exaggerating to make a point, and aren't based your numbers on any kind of research. But don't expect people to agree with them as facts. Just as generalizations (which most of us have already mentioned, severely dislike).

If those were your concerns, then I hope my post and others have contented you somewhat. Maybe we just assumed you knew what we knew. The fact that this is a mixed forum with men & women, I know a lot of guys shy away from talking about these kinds of matters. If we were just guys sitting around, talking, that'd be a different story. So you might be interpreting our shyness to talk openly about these issues in front of girls (and indeed, there are some very young kids, some pre-teens, even, that are on these forums) as an unwillingness to admit it's happening. Know that that is not the case.

muminah15
04-12-2007, 10:24 AM
I repent every single time I do it and think I will never do it again but always do it again.
[Edit: off topic comment]

We are all human and we all make mistakes. Even if you sincerely repent but return to the sin, Wallahu A'alam you are sincere, and that is what Allah loves. I do not know of the exact wording but I remember hearing a narration that Allah loves for His slave to continously return to Him even after he/she has been wronged. The more you return to Allah, the more He will guide you and bless you. Keep trying brother, we are all sinful but it is our sincerity that makes us different as Muslims. And insha Allah, we will conquer our sins.

Um Tammer
04-12-2007, 01:32 PM
no one mentioned AIDS or unwanted pregnancy.
Getting marriage young is also hard.

omer_k88
04-12-2007, 04:12 PM
I wasn't going to reply but a brothers in need so...

I'm Desi, so I will be frank with you about our culture. It's not as it seems. Sure, there are issues, occasionally but for the most part, our parents aren't dumb. They know the environment we live in and have seen worse. Go back home to India/Pakistan and what's the one sight you see that ruins your day: HIJREYS (Guys that walk around the streets dressed in women's clothing, among other things) and their everywhere.

I'll tell you straight up MuslimEngineer:
Go straight to your parents and tell them "I want to get married".
Listen, I'm desi and I know, just go and do it and they will listen. Trust me, just go and talk to them. No, don't think about another solution, just say it to them. The only person that's stopping you is Shaytaan. Money is not as big an issue as you think. You may be surprised, but I know young desi brothers (19-20) who have done this and their parents understood. If you don't have a girl in mind, they'll even search someone out for you. They've been in your situations before and know it's difficult, so they'll make it easy for you.

Don't settle for less. Go straight for the marriage. And your problems are solved.

And I take it we're all invited to the wedding right? :) Better not, hey. For your honor's sake.

Suhaib ar-Rumi
04-12-2007, 05:49 PM
Assalaamu'alaykum

I just wanted to mention a few points that came into mind.
You mentioned that a friend of yours ended up going to a prostitute after praying Maghrib. If he were to increase his khushoo' in salah it would be much harder for him to return to the sin. If one is committing a sin and goes to pray salah, they should think about Allah throughout the salah so that when they leave the salah the guilt makes it hard to go back to the sin. Remember Allah is watching us at all times.
Also, you said that all of your friends are Muslim. Use this to your advantage. Whenever you have any free time then instead of indulging in desires go hang our with your friends, increase your brotherhood. Free time and wandering thoughts can cause one to trangress.
If you feel that your du'aa are not being answered then try to think why they aren't being answered. Du'a during tahajjud really helps. There is a lecture series by Sh. Yaser Qadhi about du'aa. I've been listening to it and subhanAllah it is really good. I recommend you listen to it as well as your friend who fell into his desires.
Lastly, a friend of mine actually masturbates and he flirts and dates but that doesn't stop him.

May Allah protect us all from shaytaan and protect us from falling into our desires. Ameen.

Wassalaamu'alaykum

AbdulHasib
04-12-2007, 06:51 PM
Sorry I forgot to answer Abdul Hasib,

Your post proves how fornication is haram. That's well established - it's even in the Quran. Which is why I mentioned dating without fornication.

Thanks.No problem.

From all the posts here, I think it proves that instead of removing the tumor, we are trying to put a band aid on the wounds.

If you look at the 'remedies' that are suggested; all from the sunnah of the Prophet salAllahu 'alaihee wa sallam, all correct, all that will fix the problem.. but it only affects the one whom his heart is open and sincere and attached to his Lord whom can only help him.

I honestly believe, that "dating without fornication" is the least of the problems.

For all of those students here who took Light of Guidance class, what did they learn from the class?

The root of all problems that shaytaan throws in the heart of man is distancing him from his Rub, and Creator. If you wish to address the issue then address it at it's root... which is closing the distance between you and your Creator.

Any remedy here or there may be temporary and cover the real problem.

Tawheed wal 'aqeedah awwalan. Belief in Allah and attaching yourself and busying yourself with knowledge of Him comes first; your actions and statements are, simply, a reverberation of that.

Even more so, I asked one of the lecturers a question, he gave a very amazing statement.

I asked, "how come there are some brothers and sisters who had understanding are leaving the true path and start committing so much open haram, and seem like they were 'burned out' and went astray?"

He said, "it's simple. they never had it in the first place. When iman truly enters your heart you will never be led astray."

This is what my post was proving.

WAllahu 'Alam

Sabiqoon
04-12-2007, 08:03 PM
Br. Abdul Hasib is absolutely correct.


I feel that this thread is becoming a waste of time.

Brother you need to increase your eemaan first. Your pessimistic negativistic almost fatalistic attitude towards sinning is doing disservice to us all.

If you keep saying, 'we are doomed, I am doomed, I sin and I repent and then go back to it..."

will never allow you to change.

In shaa ALlaah this is going to be the last of my posts on this thread.

I want to back up Br. Abdul Hasib's statements about tawheed being the core and vital issue that you and everyone else had to instill into ourselves.

The sahaabah changed 180deg and moreover were steadfast on the change.
IT CAN BE DONE and you can stay away from sin. Likewise there ARE brohters out there who have stayed away and repented or never committed these things in the first place.
It takes determination.
YOu need to focus, focus on Allaah and the hereafter rather than this petty temporary life and its nuances.

Moreover, even looking at the kuffar, it is the hardwork and determination to pursue their goals that makes them achieve it.
Even this concept of making a goal NOT TO COMMIT a sin and then staying steadfast on it should be enough for you to stay away.

Thats all.

Bint Ahmad
04-12-2007, 08:14 PM
I asked, "how come there are some brothers and sisters who had understanding are leaving the true path and start committing so much open haram, and seem like they were 'burned out' and went astray?"

He said, "it's simple. they never had it in the first place. When iman truly enters your heart you will never be led astray."

WAllahu 'AlamJazaak Allahu Khair for sharing that. It is a very important question and such a powerful answer. I pray that it serves as a wake-up call and motivator to all the Muslims who read it who do feel some of the hopelessness that was mentioned in this thread.

Mubarak
04-12-2007, 08:26 PM
The sahaabah changed 180deg and moreover were steadfast on the change.

Good example and well writen but inshallah dont get frustrated with the posts of those who ask questions.

And Allah knows best

AbdulHasib
04-12-2007, 11:21 PM
One thing i'd like to reiterate

May Allah reward the brother for being steadfast, and reward him in his sincerety,

asking even the question shows that the person is sincere in wanting an answer and we say Alahmdulillah for that, because how many out there are roaming around lost and don't even know how to ask?

May Allah give us steadfastness, guidance, and have mercy on us, and we seek refuge in Him from fitnah that is apparent, and fitnah that is hidden, and we seek refuge in him from showing off, and we seek refuge in him from arrogance. Ameen.

Abu Sunnah
04-13-2007, 07:03 AM
May Allah reward the brother for being steadfast, and reward him in his sincerety,
Ameen

asking even the question shows that the person is sincere in wanting an answer and we say Alahmdulillah for that, because how many out there are roaming around lost and don't even know how to ask?Alhamdolilah

May Allah give us steadfastness, guidance, and have mercy on us, and we seek refuge in Him from fitnah that is apparent, and fitnah that is hidden, and we seek refuge in him from showing off, and we seek refuge in him from arrogance. Ameen.Ameen

ytghazal
04-10-2010, 08:32 AM
Well i just wanted to point out that there are ways you can get past dating with a real life example. I really liked a girl. The feeling was mutual. Rather than dating behind our parents backs, I went to her father (with my grandfather and uncle, my parents went overseas) and asked for the Kalimah. Alhamdullillah he accepted and we have decided to get married on July 31st. I am 18 and she is 3 months younger than me.

khanman1
04-10-2010, 01:24 PM
Well i just wanted to point out that there are ways you can get past dating with a real life example. I really liked a girl. The feeling was mutual. Rather than dating behind our parents backs, I went to her father (with my grandfather and uncle, my parents went overseas) and asked for the Kalimah. Alhamdullillah he accepted and we have decided to get married on July 31st. I am 18 and she is 3 months younger than me.

AKHI,

MABROOK!!!

WALLAHI, I am so proud of you and so happy for you
You are a great example for our younger generation

May ALLAH reward you immensely for ignoring the status quo and protecting your deen. May ALLAH make this union of yours a blessed one by which you can attain the best in this life and the hereafter... aameen

Nihalk1
04-11-2010, 11:11 AM
Well i just wanted to point out that there are ways you can get past dating with a real life example. I really liked a girl. The feeling was mutual. Rather than dating behind our parents backs, I went to her father (with my grandfather and uncle, my parents went overseas) and asked for the Kalimah. Alhamdullillah he accepted and we have decided to get married on July 31st. I am 18 and she is 3 months younger than me.

Alhamdulillah that's great to hear! But the reality of it is that most 18 year olds are not mature enough to get married and at the sametime most parents would not be willing to marry their son at such a young age. Another factor such plays into place is not being decided on one's career and having a job at the same time to support ones wife.

I'm happy for you in the end, but how do those roles play out for you if you don't mind me asking.