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Sirius1
11-23-2007, 01:49 PM
Excerpt from the Ring of Dove by Ibn Hazm:
Abu Dulaf the stationer told me the following story, which he heard from the philosopher Maslama Ibn Ahmad, better known as al-Majriti. In the mosque which lies to the east of the Quraish cemetery in Cordova, opposite the house of the vizier Abu `Umar Ahmad In' Muhammad Ibn Hudair (God have mercy upon him!)-in this mosque Muqaddam Ibn al-Asfar was always to be seen hanging about during his salad days, because of a romantic attachment which he had formed for 'Ajib, the page-boy of the afore-mentioned Abu `Umar. He gave up attending prayers at the Masrur mosque (near where he lived), and came to this mosque night and day on account of 'Ajib. He was arrested more than once by the guard at night, when he was departing from the mosque after praying the second evening prayer; he had done nothing but' sit and stare at the page-boy until the latter, angry and infuriated, went up to him and struck him some hard blows, slapping his cheeks and punching him in the eye. Yet the young man was delighted at this and exclaimed, " By Allah! This is what I have dreamed of; now I am happy." Then he would walk alongside of 'Ajib for some minutes. Abu Dulaf added that he had been, told this story by Maslama several times in the presence of 'Ajib himself, when observing the high position, influence and prosperity to which Muqaddam Ibn al-Asfar had attained; the latter had indeed become most powerful; he was on extremely intimate terms with al-Muzaffar Ibn Abi `Amin, and enjoyed friendly relations with al-Muzaffar's mother and family; he built a number of mosques and drinking-fountains, and established not a few charitable foundations; besides all which he busied himself with all the various kinds of benevolent and other activities, with which men in authority like to concern themselves.What kind of “romantic” attachment did Muqaddam-ibn-Al-asfar have for Ajib? Since both individuals are men—the only thing that comes to mind is the kind of attraction the people of Lut alayhes salaam had for each other. Was that the reason why Muqaddam was arrested? If that’s the case, why did Ibn Hazm use this haraam incident as a 'romantic' attachment example in his book?

If its not, then what’s the nature of the “romantic” attachment that is being referred to? Does the word “romantic” in this case not have the connotation of ‘love’? If so, then why is this incident even mentioned in the Love Book?

InshaAllah, I request that only knowledgeable people answer this question.

Jazakallah Khair

Sirius1
11-30-2007, 05:56 PM
Considering that the incident has been used as a "romantic" attachment example...I'm thinking...if a non-Muslim were to read that paragraph, he/she would erroneously start to believe that sodomitic attraction is acceptable in Islam.

Why even 'recognize' such things in a romantic sense?! Its Disgusting.

Is there something I'm missing?!?!

Shaykh Yaser Birjas?

Sirius1
12-01-2007, 07:37 PM
Why is this question not being addressed?

OmerChoudry
12-02-2007, 02:24 AM
Why is this question not being addressed?

maybe noone knows the answer?

Sirius1
12-02-2007, 05:26 PM
It would be quite appalling if no one knows the answer...

After all, the book (The Ring of the Dove) was recommeded IN CLASS, so it can be quite safely assumed that multiple people have read it. It would be quite surprising if no one understood the incident in the way I'm understanding it, especially when the word 'romantic' is so explicitly stated; and homophility is such a well known SIN.

Not only that, the book was written ~669 years ago.

The Ring of the Dove was Ibn Hazm's only experiment in the field of elegant literature; for he was primarily interested in theology and law, on which he wrote voluminously. Its survival hangs upon the tenuous thread of a single manuscript, itself in fact an epitome rather than a complete transcription of the original. This precious codex, which is dated Rajab 738 of the Mohammedan reckoning, or February 1338 of the Christian era, is preserved in the fine Leiden collection, and was first studied by R. Dozy, the eminent historian of Moslem Spain.Considering its popularity, it seems probable that everything written in there must have been scrutinized by atleast by a handful of Muslims. That makes me wonder if it's a translation issue.

I understand members of the same gender wanting to observe someone for his/her physical beauty. For example, the Prophet sallalahu alayhe wa sallam was a handsome man and I'm sure everyone (meaning even men) liked to look at him.

But staring at a person of the same gender because of a 'romantic' attachment?! That's very disturbing!

I looked up the definitions of the word on dictionary.com:

ro·man·tic
1.of, pertaining to, or of the nature of romance; characteristic or suggestive of the world of romance: a romantic adventure.
2.fanciful; impractical; unrealistic: romantic ideas.
3.imbued with or dominated by idealism, a desire for adventure, chivalry, etc.
4.characterized by a preoccupation with love or by the idealizing of love or one's beloved.
5.displaying or expressing love or strong affection.
6.ardent; passionate; fervent.
7.(usually initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a style of literature and art that subordinates form to content, encourages freedom of treatment, emphasizes imagination, emotion, and introspection, and often celebrates nature, the ordinary person, and freedom of the spirit (contrasted with classical (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=classical)).
8.of or pertaining to a musical style characteristic chiefly of the 19th century and marked by the free expression of imagination and emotion, virtuosic display, experimentation with form, and the adventurous development of orchestral and piano music and opera.
9.imaginary, fictitious, or fabulous. 10.noting, of, or pertaining to the role of a suitor or lover in a play about love: the romantic lead. –noun
11.a romantic person.
12.a romanticist.
13.romantics, romantic ideas, ways, etc.
Either I'm way off in my understanding or there is something seriously wrong with the author's views.Considering the nature of the book, I can't help but understand it in the haraam sense! Only #4, 5, & 6 seem to fit.

So, what I need is a confirmation that I'm understanding it right. If yes, then isn't there something seriously wrong with the author's views?

Or is there something else to it that I'm completely oblivious to?

Shaykh Yaser Birjas...will you please respond? (as this question is related to class)

Whitney S
12-02-2007, 05:30 PM
If it is said that in the English translation, I would assume that its best to read the arabic if one can, because english translations are not always correct. WaAllahu Alim

Sirius1
12-02-2007, 05:31 PM
I don't understand Arabic, that's why it would be good if an educated, Arabic-understanding person would respond.

Sirius1
12-02-2007, 05:46 PM
Well, its not about "dwelling" over "unimportant" matters, its about understanding everything that one is reading. The book was recommended in class...and the question comes out of it! Expanding one's mind by learning is good...assuming stuff is not.

Maybe its not important to you, but it is to me. The book is a reflection of Ibn Hazm's views...so the information in it says a lot about his understanding of Islam!
I think we should let the Shaykh speak for himself.

No more digressions please, back to the question.

Thanks

Hala
12-02-2007, 05:50 PM
Well, its not about "dwelling" over "unimportant" matters, its about understanding everything that one is reading. The book was recommended in class...and the question comes out of it! Expanding one's mind by learning is good...assuming stuff is not.

Maybe its not important to you, but it is to me. The book is a reflection of Ibn Hazm's views...so the information in it says a lot about his understanding of Islam!
I think we should let the Shaykh speak for himself.

No more digressions please, back to the question.

Thanks

No problem in shaa Allah. It's best we let shaykh Yaser speak on this topic himself.


Wassalaamu Alaykum