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Al-Hayaa
03-07-2008, 04:38 AM
Asalaamu 'alaykum warahmtullahi wabaraakatahu,

I hope this reaches you in best of imaan n health

I have a serious question to ask, a sister that i know is about to get married and finds out recently that her fiance will not allow her to work in a mixed environment?

She graduates this year in sha Allah and finds it crucial that she works to support her parents (as they dont work) and any work she finds will be mixed becos of her degree (biomedicals). She wishes to further develop her degree by masters as it will help her get a job in arab countries........what is she to do? The brother she is considering is commited to his deen and has good ahklaaq...

Any advice i can pass to the sis would be great, jazakumullahu khayran

Ps- she knows the daleel that most scholars said that it is not permissible for women to work in mixed environment.....but we live in a country that is not Muslim and therefore no choice and cannot avoid mixed places, i.e. bus, uni, etc. I cant think of nay work she can do in this country that is not mixed! It is another case if you were in muslim country, there are women clinics, labs.

Wallahu A'lam

fee amanillah

nybrother
03-07-2008, 09:13 AM
Asalaamu 'alaykum warahmtullahi wabaraakatahu,

Ps- she knows the daleel that most scholars said that it is not permissible for women to work in mixed environment.....but we live in a country that is not Muslim and therefore no choice and cannot avoid mixed places, i.e. bus, uni, etc. I cant think of nay work she can do in this country that is not mixed! It is another case if you were in muslim country, there are women clinics, labs.

Wallahu A'lam

wa 'alaikumassalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

I cannot answer the question. This is for a scholar to answer, and he should know the specific situation in detail before answering, I think.

But I do have some advice:

You mentioned that she already knows that most scholars have understood that it is impermissible for women to be working in such environments. So really the problem is there. The problem is not with the proposing husband-to-be. Because if he was out of the picture, the problem would still exist, although there would be less pressure and shaytan will allow the sister to forget that it's a problem. (Happens to all of us).

You mentioned that we live in a non-Muslim country, therefore we cannot avoid these environments. Not just at work. Almost everywhere.

But right below that, you mentioned the solution...
(I'm not judging the sister's situation, and I don't expect you to answer this question here. There is no need. But just present it to her and let her consider it)
What is preventing her from doing what you mentioned? Moving to a Muslim country and working there?

We know that for her it's extremely hard (and nearly impossible) to find a job that isn't in a haraam environment. Not to mention every other haraam environment (besides work) (not just because of the freemixing). Not to mention the haraam status of living in a non-Muslim country for the wrong reasons, anyway. And so on.

So I believe she should take all this into consideration. Right now (from what I understand) it's just her and her parents. She's not committed to a husband, children, etc. so maybe she would consider this. Allah knows best.
Later on in life when brothers and sisters have like 5 children and a business here, a contract here, and so on, they realize that they are doing so many things wrong to begin with but it's too late. It would be too much trouble to go back and do the right thing. We should've did it from the start.
Now she has a chance to study the situation and think it through very thoroughly, and Allah knows best.

Al-Hayaa
03-07-2008, 05:56 PM
Jazakallahu khayran jazaa brother for your help, i really appreciate it! im sure this will be of benefit to her.

Make plenty of du3a cos i dont think its easy leave to muslim country like that, no stable job, place and mahram?!

Fee amanillah

AKA
03-08-2008, 11:00 AM
Ps- she knows the daleel that most scholars said that it is not permissible for women to work in mixed environment.....and are men allowed to work in 'mixed environments'?

Al-Hayaa
03-08-2008, 01:57 PM
No, they should not work in mixed environment but as the man has to provide for the family, bidarrura (reason) he can work in that environment, wallahu a'lam.

Stawf
03-08-2008, 03:50 PM
Asalaamu 'alaykum warahmtullahi wabaraakatahu,

She graduates this year in sha Allah and finds it crucial that she works to support her parents (as they dont work) Walikum wassalaam warahmatullah wabarakatu,

Why is the sister taking financial responsibility for her parents? Is her father alive, and able to work (any kind of job)? Does she have a brother? Why the parents are not working? A daughter should not take such responsibility. Islamically, women are free from any kind of financial responsibilities about their parents, children, husbands, even brothers and sisters.

Starting a new life (marriage life) with such a huge responsibly will have a negative impact on her marriage, no matter how good the husband is. Please say the sister, don't take such financial responsibility which Allah (Swt) does not put on her shoulder. She is a daughter, not a son. Our sisters should know what are their rights and responsibility in Islam. Don't be emotional, but logical. Islam is based on logics.

Islam_Truth
03-09-2008, 09:44 PM
^ Ofcourse it is not the reponsibility for a sister to take financial reponsibility over her parents but sometimes she has to because there is noone else to support them. In that case would it be permissible for her to do it?

No, they should not work in mixed environment but as the man has to provide for the family, bidarrura (reason) he can work in that environment, wallahu a'lam. This is the first I have heard that women cannot work in a mixed enviornement.
Can you please provide some sources? inshaAllah

Some sisters need to work inorder to avoid riba based university loans and what about attending university, it is also a mixed enviornement?
yikes this is all pretty overwhelming.
SubhanAlllah.

sister phi
03-09-2008, 09:55 PM
I also have never heard that women cannot work in a mixed environment... InshaAllah I'd like to see some sources as well so I can read up more about this.

I also had a question about men not being able to work in mixed environments. It was said in a previous post that men are not supposed to work in mixed environments, but since they have to provide for their family they are allowed to do so out of necessity. How does this work in a true Muslim state? If women are not required to work, and men are not allowed to work in mixed environments, then what do women do in society? For example, I can't see how they could go to the doctor (if there are no women who choose to work in that field) because that would make it a mixed environment for the male doctor. Even if one says that this is a medical issue so it's different and a male doctor is allowed to see a woman patient, then what about other things? How does a woman go shopping if there are no women-only shopping malls? Please please please correct me if I'm misunderstanding anything, but doesn't this whole concept of not allowing people to work in mixed environments force society into being completely segregated? I have always been taught that men and women are allowed to work together (with rules of gender interaction and hayaa'), but not socialize together (unless they're mahrams).

Allahu 'alam. I'm very interested in learning more about this topic if anyone can provide more information. JazakumAllahu khayran.

Mariam 3:36
03-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Wa 'alaykum as-salaam wa rahmat Allahi wa barakaatuhu,

I will not discuss my understanding of the opinions/rulings on men and women in mixed environments, but with respect to the sister that you know, what about the option of working in a single-sex school? Professionally she may not find it fulfilling if she has dreams of working in a particular field or furthering her education, but it could allow her the option of obeying her husband and fufilling the responsbility she feels she has for her parents. If she was working part-time while in school to support her parents (which I only assume is the case since you said that neither of her parents work), then I would also assume that a teaching job will provide enough income for her to take care of them. Having said that, I also like the recommendation of a previous poster regarding speaking to her fiance about supporting her parents--waAllahu a'alem.

Living in a non-Muslim country presents a lot of complications that can be quite frustrating, but we have to do as the Prophet sallah Allahu 'alayhi wa sal-lem advised: saddidoo (be upon uprightness in action and correctness in speech), wa Qaariboo (come as close as you can to uprightness in action and correctness in speech)" [related by Ibn Mirdawi; Ad-Diyaa said, "Al-Haafiz Abu Al-Qaasim (referring to Ismaa'eel ibn Muhammad ibn Al-Fadl) said, "This Hadeeth is Hasan, and its chain is good."] and I remind myself first, before I remind anyone else.

May Allah subhaana wa ta'aala give you and your friend what is best for you in this dunya and in al-aakhira, and spare you from the suffering of the fire. Ameen. And He alone knows what life choices will lead us along the path full of goodness and towards goodness.

As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmat Allah

Hala
03-09-2008, 11:42 PM
Asalaamu 'alaykum warahmtullahi wabaraakatahu,

I hope this reaches you in best of imaan n health

I have a serious question to ask, a sister that i know is about to get married and finds out recently that her fiance will not allow her to work in a mixed environment?

Without getting into the debate on the permissibility of women working, I would advise the sister to marry a brother who has similar aspirations as she does. If working is something she needs to do (mixed environment or not), then marrying a brother who prefers her to stay home isn't the best idea.

Al-Hayaa
03-10-2008, 02:50 PM
Jazakumullahu khayran for all your opinions n views regarding this issue, YES i too was shocked to hear that it is actually not persmissible for women to work in mixed environment bcos i started to think that maybe going to university is haraam and taking public transport? Nevertheless, i went to islam Q and A and found that most opinions is that women should not work in such mixed place. However, bi-darrura (for necessity) like doctor, nurse and other profession and there is need for you to work, it is allowed...read the two situations inshallah:
Question:
My wife is studing to become a nurse at a University, is it lawful to: -examine patients(male or female) and give them baths which are apart of the class projects.
-examine men as a nurse in non-emergency situations at a non-muslim hospital.
-work at a home for the mentally ill where the co-workers are male and the patients are also.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

If a woman finds that she has to work because of necessity, she is permitted to work outside the home, as is indicated by the fact that the two daughters of Shu’ayb used to water the sheep, and the story of Asma’ bint Abi Bakr working outside the home. If a woman is widowed with children, and has no breadwinner and is receiving no money from the Bayt al-Maal (treasury), it is permissible for her to earn a living. Although we say that a woman is permitted to work outside the home when it is necessary, she should nevertheless do only the work she needs to do in order to meet her needs. If a woman has professional skills which not every woman possesses, and which are needed by other woman and society as a whole, then it is permissible for her to practice her profession outside the home, so long as she adheres to the conditions prescribed by sharee’ah and has the permission of her legal (shar’i) guardian. The evidence that it is permissible for the woman to work outside the home in a field where there is a need for her work, as long as she adheres to the conditions prescribed by sharee’ah, is to be seen in the fact that at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), midwives used to attend women in labour, and skilled women used to practice circumcision, and he did not condemn them for doing so. It is also known that Rufaydah al-Ansaariyyah used to treat the wounded in her tent, which had been set up in the mosque for that purpose. She was very skilled in treating the sick, and her work was done with the knowledge and express permission of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Sa’d ibn Mu’aadh was transferred to her tent for treatment. This indicates that it is permissible for a woman to practice her profession outside the home, and by analogy we may deduce that it is permissible for a female doctor to open a clinic outside her home for the treatment of women and children. By doing this, she is fulfilling the duty of fard kifaayah (a duty falling on the entire community – if some people fulfil it, responsibility is lifted from the rest, otherwise all will be held accountable. Translator). Such clinics make it easy for sick women to come to a female doctor, hence they no longer have to uncover their ‘awrah before a male doctor when they need treatment.

But this permission is given on the condition that this work does not affect her duties towards her own home, husband and children, and that she has her husband’s permission, because these duties are her individual duties (fard ‘ayn), which take precedence over her responsibilities towards the community (fard kifaayah). When there is any conflict, her individual duties must come first. (Al-Mufassal by ‘Abd al-Kareem, 4/272).

Another hadeeth which describes Muslim women at the beginning of Islam practising a profession was narrated by Hafsah, concerning a woman who used to treat the wounded. Al-Bukhaari, may Allaah have mercy on him, reported in his Saheeh that Hafsah said: “A woman came and stayed at the fort of Bani Khalaf, and told us about her sister. Her sister’s husband used to go out on military campaigns with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He had been on twelve campaigns, and she (his wife) had accompanied him on six. She said, ‘We used to treat the wounded and take care of the sick…’” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 313).

But a woman’s work as a nurse or doctor is regulated by the rules indicated in other Islamic texts. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar, may Allaah have mercy on him, commenting on the above hadeeth, mentioned some of these conditions: “What we learn from this hadeeth is that a woman is allowed to offer medical treatment to a non-mahram man (one to whom she is not related), so long as this takes the form of bringing medicine to him, for example, or other forms of indirect treatment (i.e. with no touching or direct contact involved) – except in cases where it is necessary and there is no fear of temptation (such as in an emergency situation or in the event of a disaster).”

If a woman works in complete hijaab, without touching a male patient, or being alone with him in any way, and as long as there is no fear that she may be the cause of temptation or be tempted herself, and she is not neglecting a more essential duty such as taking care of her husband or children, and she has the permission of her guardian, then it is permissible for her to work. In principle, men should be treated by male doctors and nurses, and women by female doctors and nurses. There should be no mixing of the sexes in medical treatment, except when it is necessary and as long as there is no fear of temptation. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid











Question:
I am a 20-year-old girl studying engineering. I work during the summer in a stationary store; in order to pay my college fees, am I sinful? I wear niqab, and sometimes feel that no religious man proposes to me for this reason.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The basic principle is that a woman should remain at home, and not go out except for necessary purposes. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance”

[al-Ahzaab 33:33].

Although this is addressed to the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), it also applies to the believing women. It is only addressed to the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) because of their honour and status with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and because they are examples for the believing women.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woman is ‘awrah, and if she goes out, the shaytaan raises his hopes (of misguiding her). She is never closer to Allaah than when she stays in her house.” Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and Ibn Khuzaymah; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Shaheehah, no. 2688.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said concerning a woman’s prayer in the mosque: “Their houses are better for them.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (567) and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

For more information please see the answer to question no. 6742 (http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&QR=6742).

Secondly:

It is permissible for a woman to go out of her house for work, but that is subject to certain conditions. If they are met, it is permissible for her to go out. They are:

- That she needs to work in order to acquire the money she needs, as in your case.

- The work should be suited to the nature of woman, such as medicine, nursing, teaching, sewing, and so on.

- The work should be in a place that is only for women, and there should be no mixing with non-mahram men.

- Whilst at work she should observe complete shar’i hijab.

- Her work should not lead to her travelling without a mahram.

- Her going out to work should not involve committing any haraam action, such as being alone with the driver, or wearing perfume where non-mahrams can smell it.

- That should not lead to her neglecting things that are more essential for her, such as looking after her house, husband and children.

See this website for more detail:

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=286&ln=eng (http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=286&ln=eng)

Wallahu ta'ala A'lam

Al-Hayaa
03-10-2008, 02:54 PM
Without getting into the debate on the permissibility of women working, I would advise the sister to marry a brother who has similar aspirations as she does. If working is something she needs to do (mixed environment or not), then marrying a brother who prefers her to stay home isn't the best idea.
Well the sad thing is sis that she found out in a later time that he doesnt allow his wife to work in mixed environment, when they got attached....

May Allah swt guide our hearts to the right path, Allahuma ameen

Fee amanillah

nybrother
03-10-2008, 03:46 PM
I also had a question about men not being able to work in mixed environments. It was said in a previous post that men are not supposed to work in mixed environments, but since they have to provide for their family they are allowed to do so out of necessity. How does this work in a true Muslim state? If women are not required to work, and men are not allowed to work in mixed environments, then what do women do in society? For example, I can't see how they could go to the doctor (if there are no women who choose to work in that field) because that would make it a mixed environment for the male doctor.As far as I know, and Allah knows best, but the way fard kifaayah works is that someone's gotta do it. When enough people are taking care of the situation, the sin is lifted from the shoulders of the rest of the town or community. Allah knows best. Please correct me if I am wrong.


How does a woman go shopping if there are no women-only shopping malls?There is no need for that. This is too extreme. Islamic society flourished for many centuries. They didn't have men-only shopping malls and women-only malls.

Please please please correct me if I'm misunderstanding anything, but doesn't this whole concept of not allowing people to work in mixed environments force society into being completely segregated? I have always been taught that men and women are allowed to work together (with rules of gender interaction and hayaa'), but not socialize together (unless they're mahrams). From my (limited) understanding, the way life works is: The man works and provides for his family. If there is a certain situation in which his wife should work, then she does. That situation can be (but is not limited to): she has a certain skill that the society needs [doctor, etc.], she has a darura to work to support the family, and so on.
But in general it is not like the west: Both genders are raised to understand that they should be working. Then they get some random babysitter to take care of their kids fulltime.

Allah knows best. I beg you brothers and sisters to correct the mistakes found in my understanding.

AKA
03-10-2008, 04:13 PM
Well the sad thing is sis that she found out in a later time that he doesnt allow his wife to work in mixed environment, when they got attached..that's the reason why you should let your dad meet the guy first and have him talk about the things that really matter, before the emotions come into play.

Hala
03-10-2008, 06:07 PM
Well the sad thing is sis that she found out in a later time that he doesnt allow his wife to work in mixed environment, when they got attached....

May Allah swt guide our hearts to the right path, Allahuma ameen

Fee amanillah

I wouldn't say it's too late if she hasn't married him yet. It's better late than never!