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Memoona
01-29-2009, 02:46 PM
Bismillah...
Assalaamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

Okay so your Nasiha is being asked for and I'd appreciate if you'd give it.

So you all remember the story of Umm Sulaym right? If not read it here http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?p=361251#post361251

Anyways, a friend of mine is going through a similar circumstance. A Hindu man has approached her for marriage and he is willing to convert and actually practice the tenets of Islam. And she is unsure of what she should do? And she solicited my advice and I immediately thought of Umm Sulaym but was still unsure of what to say.

So after seeking her permission I am posting this on the forums to solicit your advice.

And now I will end here and hopefully someone will post something and it will be beneficial.

JazakumAllahu Khairan

Shirien
01-29-2009, 04:19 PM
I agree, there has to be belief in the heart in order for the actions to be on the limbs. (not always the case of course for munafiqeen.) But he would have to convert anyway before marriage, or else the marriage is not allowed in the first place.

What may happen later is that he practices for a month or two, they get married and then he gets lazy because he already has the girl and thinks nothing serious of it.

It all goes back to iman in the heart and sincere intentions.

Also, I would advise any sister to marry someone on the same level deenwise as her or better (in general, not always the case).

Wallahu alem.

Ifteen
01-29-2009, 04:23 PM
I agree, he should do something to show he is sincere. No one can tell what is in someones heart but Allah. However, marriage is a HUGE and hopefully lifetime commitment. You can't afford to give someone the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to muslim brothers most sisters I know observe his dedication and commitment to the deen. Ie.. make sure the brother prays etc. we wouldn't go and merely take his word for it and assume he will change right? So the same should apply to a brother who is willing to convert. At the end of the day he is converting for his own salvation. Thus, he should learn how to be independent in his own ibadah. Proving to himself and Allah his sincerity. wallahu alaam.

iss ME! zahweee!
01-29-2009, 05:32 PM
also the sister has to be extremely strong in her own imaan.. having a husband who was previously not even a person of the book (where there are similarities) but a mushrik.. you have to be really strong in your aqeedah.. since he's about to go through a biggg change insha-Allah

Mansoor
01-29-2009, 07:17 PM
I think we are not worthy enough to answer this question, you should direct this question to any of the shyookh. Else she might end up in a miserable situation and we all will be the cause of her distress.

Sana2184
01-29-2009, 09:30 PM
Umm Sulaym's story is beautiful indeed. Alhumdulillah.
But when remembering that story, it's crucial to remind ourselves that she was one of the first to convert to Islam. This means that there probably weren't many muslim men in those days. Another point is the way Umm Sulaym's story goes, the reason it is so uplifting is because had she told Abu Talha to convert and then she'll think about marrying him, he would've converted for the sake of ALLAH regardless, not for her. Her condition was geared more at her acceptance of Islam as the way of life and setting that up as a must of whoever she chose to marry. She made her argument in a way where she showed him that her belief in Allah is so huge that she doesn't want all of his wealth, something every woman in those times must've longed for. This is what made him think that she's on to something, the truth. When he reflected on her words they didn't have so much to do with marrying her, they had everything to do with his relationship to Allah. She helped him to Islam whether she married him or not. The connection they had was that they both put love in their hearts first for Allah before anyone else and that guided them to truthful people. Just like her was guided to her and she was guided to him. He came back and sincerely converted, not in a hurry to be with her, but to embrace the life he'd been in the dark about. He was guided and as a gift, Allah also gave him the woman he wanted.
As beautiful as this story is, we can't always base this as our reasoning behind our desires. We as muslims must strive to separate our desires from Allah's commands. We must ask ourselves, "do i really first want him? or would i marry any muslim as long as he's practicing and we have similar goals and personalities that go together?" if the desire is already there and set on a specific individual who isn't muslim then it's important to take a step back and look at the situation truthfully (I'm just speaking on general terms not being specific.)

If someone today puts a condition first that I'll become muslim and practice if you marry me then that is quite questionable. If the guy liked the girl in the beginning and knew she was muslim and thus not allowed to marry outside her deen, why didn't he use that to decide whether he could do that and truly believe it....go convert...then ask for in marriage? why is the condition still there and the guy is awaiting an answer from her as the conditional basis of his marrying him?
you can't tell if he's sincere. it's a sticky situation to get into. Marrying someone who says that he will convert if a person marries him, should be asked, "would you convert if you didn't marry her?"
the real test would be to tell him to convert and then you'll decide but still wouldn't be sure. if he finds his peace with Allah regardless of the decision then Allah has truly guided him and has given you a chance to be more sure of something this serious. If he is told that he needs to convert and that won't mean he will necessarily marry her and he can't seem to really agree to that then it's clear his heart was never in the conversion to Allah's way but it was just in the girl. He needs to realize that once he converts, there's no saying if the girl will agree to marry him, does he still accept Islam with all of it's practice without the girl? it would just be good to let him know that the conversion decision should be separate from the marriage decision. they should never be conditional. once a guy makes that condition then the girl should know that he converted for her...there's no real barakah in something unless it is done for the sake of Allah alone. and could she live with that?

Before every step we take it's important to realize the small plots the shaitaan makes and how easy it is to assume the plots are not really there. It's a very crucial decision during our time to decide who a sister should accept as her husband, her lifelong best friend, her support who helps her to complete half her deen so she only has to worry about the other half. who you marry helps to see how the future generation can be. if you marry someone who is serious about islam and has love in his eyes for Allah above all else, you can only succeed with someone like that. but if a guy only sees a girl in his eyes then (well maybe he should be lowering his gaze. jk)

As a note, i do not know who sought the advice nor am i making a judgment call in anything i say. i'm simply trying to help by showing a side maybe that's perhaps in the back of the head at the moment. anything i've said that was wrong, i apologize for and anything that was correct or helped was only from Allah alone.

iss ME! zahweee!
01-31-2009, 01:15 AM
aww sis, it's a rule of the forums :(.. (believe me, none of us are crazy about it, but we have to respect it) even the brother who removed it has no say in the matter and is just doing his job...
if possible, please copy/paste what you were linking for the benefit of everyone insha-Allah - that is completely allowed, so it's not a matter of differing opinions.. just a rule about no outside links unless they are from almaghrib's own site, or sites affiliated with almaghrib or its instructors

iss ME! zahweee!
01-31-2009, 01:36 AM
the following is a link to the rules put in place particularly for the almaghrib forums:
http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=17519

you'll find a whole section on their rule about no links and exceptions to that rule

iss ME! zahweee!
01-31-2009, 01:25 PM
i think the forums suggestions/questions folder is the proper place to make your query, not here..

this is a rule of the forums.. as members, we should abide by its rules whether we like them or not.. they're not limiting you from putting up information.. just copy/paste whatever you want (if it's appropriate, which i'm sure it is).. yea it's more work, but it's the same thing.. if you're trying to post just the information then there shouldn't be a problem, if you're trying to show someone an entire website then the best thing to do is tell them to google xyz in order to see the website you want them to.. that's what the rest of us do.. and that's the way it's been.. so it's unlikely to change.. almaghrib has their reasons for this rule.. if you want to know them, then again, i think go to the suggestions and questions folder and they'd be able to help you better from there

brother_bruce
01-31-2009, 03:01 PM
wa'alaikum assalaam wa rahmatullah

JazakiAllah khayr Sr iss me! for trying to help.

Sr shiningseasons, I completely understand where you are coming from. As a Muslim myself, I also have a vested interest in seeing the 'ilm of Islam spread. However, as a moderator I also have certain duties which I need to balance and reconcile, first and foremost with being a Muslim.

That being said, I would suggest that you email forums @ almaghrib . org with any questions or concerns you have regarding this policy.

wsalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

AZikria
01-31-2009, 05:39 PM
Quran 2:221

Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.
Bismillahi Ar-Rahmani Raheem

Shiningseasons please read the first post. The man in the situation discribed is willing to become Muslim.

As for the situation itself, one would have to seriously look into the deen and sincerity of the individual who is willing the convert in-order to get married. The first question comes to mind is. Why are you willing to become Muslim? Based on the answer one can give follow-up questions. The main point is the sister MUST look deeper into the back ground and true intentions of this person.

I know sisters who have been appraoched by brothers for marriage and one of the smart questions they ask is "Brother I am flattered that you've appraoched me but what is it that you saw in me that made you come to approach me?". I think this would be best if she asked the man. From this, and questions that would follow-up this question, she could get a better read to the reasons this man is taking the steps he's willing to take.

1. Consulation of her own family is needed.
2. Research should be done.
3. istighara made (multiple times if possible).
4. A wait period (after he is converted) is a must and recommended by most scholars.
5. It needs to be made clear that if he is willing to convert then it be done for his own well being and comfort and not for the sake of marriage (primarily or even at all). Imagine a sister in this situation, who ends up having a rocky relationship then her husand tells her "Hey sacraficed a lot in this marriage I even converted for you". I'm sure any sister or brother would be heartbroken to hear that their spouse was not sincere in their conversion.
6. Even if he is sincere from all research done. The sister should seriously weight her option, formulate the pros & cons. Muslims coming back to the deen let alone converts need time for adjustment in the new lifestyle. Can she be a full time teacher? Can she be a moderator between possible difficulties with her new in-laws and her husband? Would she confident her children would be raised in the highest level of an Islamic enviroment? these questions on top of the other questions she would have, for any Muslim (if they are a convert or not) brother who would ask for her hand in marriage, has to be thought through carefully.

Tuwaylib
02-02-2009, 12:45 PM
In my humble opinion this is not a good idea at all. The mushrik hasn't even accepted Islam and it almost seems (ala dhahir) that he is more interested in her than Islam. There are too many cases of 'becoming muslim' for the sake of marriage and you find out later they didn't have any real knowledge of the shahadatayn and ultimately remained a mushrik.

May Allah guide us all. Ameen