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Old 02-21-2005, 04:36 PM   #11
Tazkiyah
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Posts: 140
Re: How does a camel sit down?

GOING DOWN INTO PROSTRATION (SAJDAH)
HANDS OR KNEES FIRST?


Al-Albani is of the firm opinion that when one goes into Sajdah, he or she should place his hands onto the ground before his knees. He stated in 'Sifah Salah an-Nabee' (pg. 52): "He (the Prophet, peace be upon him) used to place his hands on the ground before his knees." Then al-Albani said in the footnote of the same page (pg. 52, fn. 2): "Ibn Khuzaimah (1/76/1), Daraqutni and Hakim, who declared it Sahih and Dhahabi agreed. All the Ahadith which contradict this are inauthentic. This way has been endorsed by Malik, and similar is reported from Ahmad in Ibn al-Jawzi's al-Tahqeeq (108/2). Also, al-Marwazi quoted with a Sahih isnad, Imam al-Awzai in his Masaa'il (1/147/1) as saying: 'I found the people placing their hands before their knees.' Then al-Albani continued on the same page: "He used to instruct likewise, saying: When one performs Sajdah, he should not kneel like a camel, but should place his hands before his knees" (related by Abu Hurayra, see Abu Dawood, 1/839, pg. 215 English ed'n).


Al-Albani has quite categorically claimed that the Ahadith which prove that one should place one's knees down before one's hands are all 'Inauthentic' according to his 'classification' standards. But as usual when there seems to be 'contradictory' Ahadith, al-Albani fails to tell his readers that many other scholars of Hadith and even the Mujtahid Imams like Abu Hanifah and al-Shafi'i (Allah's mercy be upon them) are indifference to his view of placing the hands on the ground before the knees!

In fact Sayyid Sabiq said in Fiqh-us-Sunnah (vol. 1, pg. 151): "Most scholars prefer that one place his knees on the floor before his hands. Ibn al-Mundhir related this from Umar (ibn al-Khatab), an-Nakhai, Muslim ibn Yasar, Sufyan al-Thauri, Ahmad (ibn Hanbal, according to one of two views reported from him), Ishaq (ibn Rahwaih) and other jurists including Ibn al-Mundhir himself. Abu at-Tayyeb said that most jurists agree with this. Ibn al Qayyim (al-Jawziyya, the disciple of Ibn Taymiyyah) said: 'When the Prophet, upon whom be peace, prayed, he would place his knees (on the floor) before his hands, then his hands, his forehead and nose. This is what is authentic and has been related by Shuraik from Asim ibn Kaleeb on the authority of his father from Wa'il ibn Hajr (Allah be pleased with him) who said: I saw the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, while prostrating, place his knees (on the floor) before his hands. Upon getting up, he would raise his hands before his knees. I never saw him do otherwise.'" (see Abu Dawood, 1/837-838, pg. 215).

Sayyid Sabiq then gave the opinion of Malik, al-Awzai, Ibn Hazm and Ahmad (according to his other opinion) whose opinions coincide with al-Albani's.

The Hadith from Wa'il ibn Hajr and Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with them) can also be found in the English translation of Mishkat-ul-MasabihAwnal-Ma'bood (vol 1, 311-312), Shams al-Haqq Azimabadi said in his commentary to Abu Dawood; after quoting the opinions held by some scholars that the hands should be placed before the knees: "But al-Khattabi is of the opinion that the tradition of Wa'il ibn Hajr is better established because it is supported by several other sound traditions (which have not been quoted by al-Albani). Ibn Khuzaimah (a Shafi'i scholar of Hadith, d. 311/924; Rahimahullah) observes that the tradition of Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) has been abrogated. He reports a tradition on the authority of Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqas (Allah be pleased with him): We used to place our hands (on the ground) before our knees, but later on we were commanded to place our knees before our hands!" The Hadith of Wa'il ibn Hajr is also found in Imam Tirmidhi's Sunan, where Imam Tirmidhi said that the Hadith was Hasan Gharib (see Sunan al-Tirmidhi, 2/268, edited by Ahmad Shakir). The author of Awn al-Ma'bood also said: "Abu Hanifah, al-Shafi'i and Ahmad (according to his second view) maintain that one should place his knees before his hands. And this seems to more convenient (see Sunan of Abu Dawood, vol. 2, fn. 383-384, pg. 215 English ed'n)."
(see vol. 2, no's 898-899, pg. 172) where it says: "Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi (d. 388/998; Rahimahullah) said that the tradition of Wa'il ibn Hajr is more sound than this (i.e the Hadith of Abu Hurayra) and it is also said that it is an abrogated one (i.e the Hadith of Abu Hurayra). Also the author of

~ From the two above views one can say either one is right. Such diffrences as Knees before hands and vice versa..Hands down to the side threwout prayer, extra takbirs between the prayer movements have been recorded and authenticated by many diffrent hadiths. If we all accept the 4 Madhabs as authethenic there shouldn't be much diffrences among us considering we are all from Ahli Sunnah wal Jammah. My best suggestion for everyone is to look to the Quran and Sunnah of Nabi (saws) yourselves. And make Dua to Allah Subhana Wa Taala to guide you to the straight path and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best.
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"By the Lord of this [human] frame, I do love Death" ~Sufyan Thawri

My Pleasure is with you, Ibn Said!
You Stood (in Worship) when night fell,
Sad with tears and firm of heart.
Behold! Choose which castle you wish,
And Visit me; for I am not far from you!

"Woe to you, son of Adam! Can you fight Allah? Whoever disobeys Allah is fighting Him. By Allah! I have met seventy veterans of Badr. Most of their garments were wool. Had you seen them you would have said they are crazy, and had they seen the best among you they would have said: "Those people will have no part in the Hereafter." Had they seen the worst among you they would have said: "Those people do not believe in the Day of Reckoning." ~ Al Hassan Al Basri..
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Old 02-21-2005, 04:44 PM   #12
alisalaah
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Re: How does a camel sit down?

Tas, did you attend the class?
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Old 02-21-2005, 05:28 PM   #13
Tazkiyah
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 140
Re: How does a camel sit down?

I didn't attend the class..
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"By the Lord of this [human] frame, I do love Death" ~Sufyan Thawri

My Pleasure is with you, Ibn Said!
You Stood (in Worship) when night fell,
Sad with tears and firm of heart.
Behold! Choose which castle you wish,
And Visit me; for I am not far from you!

"Woe to you, son of Adam! Can you fight Allah? Whoever disobeys Allah is fighting Him. By Allah! I have met seventy veterans of Badr. Most of their garments were wool. Had you seen them you would have said they are crazy, and had they seen the best among you they would have said: "Those people will have no part in the Hereafter." Had they seen the worst among you they would have said: "Those people do not believe in the Day of Reckoning." ~ Al Hassan Al Basri..
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:40 PM   #14
s.k-ninjabi
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Posts: 3
Re: How does a camel sit down?

this is how a camel sits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSgoTAfQMbE

just to give everyone a clearer understanding, inshaAllah
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:13 PM   #15
Abd- Allah
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Re: How does a camel sit down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazkiyah
GOING DOWN INTO PROSTRATION (SAJDAH)
HANDS OR KNEES FIRST?


Al-Albani is of the firm opinion that when one goes into Sajdah, he or she should place his hands onto the ground before his knees. He stated in 'Sifah Salah an-Nabee' (pg. 52): "He (the Prophet, peace be upon him) used to place his hands on the ground before his knees." Then al-Albani said in the footnote of the same page (pg. 52, fn. 2): "Ibn Khuzaimah (1/76/1), Daraqutni and Hakim, who declared it Sahih and Dhahabi agreed. All the Ahadith which contradict this are inauthentic. This way has been endorsed by Malik, and similar is reported from Ahmad in Ibn al-Jawzi's al-Tahqeeq (108/2). Also, al-Marwazi quoted with a Sahih isnad, Imam al-Awzai in his Masaa'il (1/147/1) as saying: 'I found the people placing their hands before their knees.' Then al-Albani continued on the same page: "He used to instruct likewise, saying: When one performs Sajdah, he should not kneel like a camel, but should place his hands before his knees" (related by Abu Hurayra, see Abu Dawood, 1/839, pg. 215 English ed'n).


Al-Albani has quite categorically claimed that the Ahadith which prove that one should place one's knees down before one's hands are all 'Inauthentic' according to his 'classification' standards. But as usual when there seems to be 'contradictory' Ahadith, al-Albani fails to tell his readers that many other scholars of Hadith and even the Mujtahid Imams like Abu Hanifah and al-Shafi'i (Allah's mercy be upon them) are indifference to his view of placing the hands on the ground before the knees!

In fact Sayyid Sabiq said in Fiqh-us-Sunnah (vol. 1, pg. 151): "Most scholars prefer that one place his knees on the floor before his hands. Ibn al-Mundhir related this from Umar (ibn al-Khatab), an-Nakhai, Muslim ibn Yasar, Sufyan al-Thauri, Ahmad (ibn Hanbal, according to one of two views reported from him), Ishaq (ibn Rahwaih) and other jurists including Ibn al-Mundhir himself. Abu at-Tayyeb said that most jurists agree with this. Ibn al Qayyim (al-Jawziyya, the disciple of Ibn Taymiyyah) said: 'When the Prophet, upon whom be peace, prayed, he would place his knees (on the floor) before his hands, then his hands, his forehead and nose. This is what is authentic and has been related by Shuraik from Asim ibn Kaleeb on the authority of his father from Wa'il ibn Hajr (Allah be pleased with him) who said: I saw the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, while prostrating, place his knees (on the floor) before his hands. Upon getting up, he would raise his hands before his knees. I never saw him do otherwise.'" (see Abu Dawood, 1/837-838, pg. 215).

Sayyid Sabiq then gave the opinion of Malik, al-Awzai, Ibn Hazm and Ahmad (according to his other opinion) whose opinions coincide with al-Albani's.

The Hadith from Wa'il ibn Hajr and Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with them) can also be found in the English translation of Mishkat-ul-MasabihAwnal-Ma'bood (vol 1, 311-312), Shams al-Haqq Azimabadi said in his commentary to Abu Dawood; after quoting the opinions held by some scholars that the hands should be placed before the knees: "But al-Khattabi is of the opinion that the tradition of Wa'il ibn Hajr is better established because it is supported by several other sound traditions (which have not been quoted by al-Albani). Ibn Khuzaimah (a Shafi'i scholar of Hadith, d. 311/924; Rahimahullah) observes that the tradition of Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) has been abrogated. He reports a tradition on the authority of Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqas (Allah be pleased with him): We used to place our hands (on the ground) before our knees, but later on we were commanded to place our knees before our hands!" The Hadith of Wa'il ibn Hajr is also found in Imam Tirmidhi's Sunan, where Imam Tirmidhi said that the Hadith was Hasan Gharib (see Sunan al-Tirmidhi, 2/268, edited by Ahmad Shakir). The author of Awn al-Ma'bood also said: "Abu Hanifah, al-Shafi'i and Ahmad (according to his second view) maintain that one should place his knees before his hands. And this seems to more convenient (see Sunan of Abu Dawood, vol. 2, fn. 383-384, pg. 215 English ed'n)."
(see vol. 2, no's 898-899, pg. 172) where it says: "Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi (d. 388/998; Rahimahullah) said that the tradition of Wa'il ibn Hajr is more sound than this (i.e the Hadith of Abu Hurayra) and it is also said that it is an abrogated one (i.e the Hadith of Abu Hurayra). Also the author of

~ From the two above views one can say either one is right. Such diffrences as Knees before hands and vice versa..Hands down to the side threwout prayer, extra takbirs between the prayer movements have been recorded and authenticated by many diffrent hadiths. If we all accept the 4 Madhabs as authethenic there shouldn't be much diffrences among us considering we are all from Ahli Sunnah wal Jammah. My best suggestion for everyone is to look to the Quran and Sunnah of Nabi (saws) yourselves. And make Dua to Allah Subhana Wa Taala to guide you to the straight path and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best.
Sister Tazkiyah, this article which you have copied from a sufi website which lied and accused shaykh Al-Albani rahimahullah falsely that he declares what opposes his views as not being authentic. Such people hate the shaykh because of his talk against their innovations and actions of shirk which they perform, so they try to discredit him in any way possible because his books which he authored completely refuted their arguments and the fabricated ahadith which these groups of people use to justify their deviant beliefs and the actions of shirk which they do such as going to graves and calling on the dead and building graves in the masaajid, etc.

Not only is what they accused shaykh
Al-Albani in that artice false, but that is exactly what the authors of such articles do themselves, and they are the ones who declare ahadith to be not authentic if it contradicts their own madhab because of their bias to their own shaykh. Shaykh Al-Albani was talking about the ahadith which mention placing the knees before the hands and that they are not authentic, and he wasn't talking about what opinion did some of the other scholars hold on this issue. By the way, not all the ahadith which the above article quoted are authentic, and some are in fact not authentic such as the ones which mention placing the knees first before the hands.

As for "
If we all accept the 4 Madhabs as authethenic.." then no scholar does accept them all to be 100% authentic. Yes, they are accepted madhabs of fiqh, and the 4 Imams did differ on some issues, but in some of what they differed (such as the issue mentioned in the article) then only one of those two opinions is correct and the other one is wrong, even if the madhab which holds the wrong opinion is accepted overall to be one of the madhbas of Ahlu Sunnah wal Jammah. But in the end this is an issue of fiqh upon which the scholars have differed, so we shouldn't make a major issue out of it, but what really upset me is those groups of people who hate shaykh Al-Albani because of his following and support of the authentic sunnah and because he denounced and fought the innovations which these people do, that is why they hate him and try to spread false things about him to discredit his work and what he says. May Allah guide them or show us justice in them.
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