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Old 02-17-2006, 04:30 AM   #21
pocahontas
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Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

And to all the muslim women out there, it would be great if you all can make a scrap book and make little notes and quotes or little messages you would like to tell these native woman about Islam, Insha Allah!


can contact me at SalmaMohamed@hotmail.com
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Old 02-17-2006, 05:02 AM   #22
pocahontas
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Talking Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

should you know too , that I have found that the native language, has similar words in arabic, like for example:

arabic word--------- meaning in arabic ------native language (cree)
min,---------------- who is it? --------------again.
Aamm or Aamou,-----uncle,------------------Bee.
miya, ---------------water,----------------- no eh?
nada,--------------- call , ------------------over there.

this is what i had notice, but I don't speak the full arabic but I do know some words, and its funny that one state in America, is an arabic, the state of '' IOWA'' lol meaning ''yeesss!!'' uuumm...... makes you think!
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Old 02-17-2006, 02:06 PM   #23
hafeez101
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Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

Mashallah Pocahontas that is interesting...there should definitely be some concerted effort to start daawah amoungst the native indian nations. Have you ever met anyone involved in that? Maybe you could start a website or something.
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Old 09-17-2006, 02:04 AM   #24
'AbdurRahman
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Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

Hey, doesn't everyone remember Tecumseh, the Cherokee leader who taught the alphabet and started the first Indian newspaper ever in America? That guy, rahimahullahu, was always pictured in my 6th grade History book wearing a turban.
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:45 PM   #25
omer_k88
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Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

As salaam aleikum!

Masha Allah...sister Pocahontas could you comment on this article please ?
http://www.sunnisisters.com/?p=549
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:05 PM   #26
hasan336
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Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

As salaam 'alaykum wa Rahmatullaah,

I would really hope that the brothers and sister here would know better than to fall for these tales and stories.

I have some blogs on my muslimspace regarding natives and Islam. We also have a website and a yahoo group. Here are the links:

http://muslimspace.com/hasan336

http://turtleisland.muslims.tripod.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ti_muslims/

There is also a visit to my blog, "Burying 'Digging For The Red Roots'", by Mahir Abdal Razzaaq El. Make sure you see the true colors of "Eagle Sun Walker".

wa salaam 'alaykum

Bismillaah Ar-Rahman, Ar-Raheem


"O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allaah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa [i.e. one of the Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2). Verily, Allaah is All-Knowing, All-Aware." (Al-Qur'an, Surah Al-Hujurat 49:13)



Burying 'Digging for the Red Roots'


This is an American Indian Muslim's response to a tale that has been spread in the name of Islam and Native Americans since 1996. My name is Hasan Grooms. I am a PeeDee Indian. I have ancestry from other American Indian Nations as well, and I have been Muslim since 1990 CE.

I have decided that perhaps the best way to assault the falsehoods in Mahir Abdal Razzaq El's "Digging for the Red Roots" is by taking this article apart piece-by-piece and refuting it's false statements and blatant lies and clarify it's inaccuracies and exaggerations, wa Allaahul musta'an.

Before we proceed, I want to state that this treatise is aimed at Muslims to encourage them to cease spreading false tales like "Digging for the Red Roots" and to take a more serious approach to investigating information that is spread regarding both Islam and American Indians. This treatise is not intended as a form of da'wah to American Indians.

We would also hope that Muslims would be willing to take a genuine interest in American Indians and to develop relationships and to have dialogue and interaction with them, and to learn about American Indians from American Indians themselves without relying on books, movies or the internet. And finally, not to approach Indians or da'wah towards Indians with a paternalistic attitude. We are not cave dwellers or stuck in the past. We are just as aware of the world, sciences, history, etc. as anyone else is.

Some non-Muslim American Indians, who may read this treatise, may be offended by my assertions in this treatise that Islam is the only true path and that other ways are upon falsehood, this is my belief as a Muslim. The point I wish to make is that it is forbidden in Islam to mix different spiritual beliefs just as it is also highly looked down upon in American Indian spiritualities, religions and traditions.

The path of Islam was the path chosen for me by the Creator, just as other American Indians are being guided to this path and are embracing Islam, for example, brother Russ Redner (Abdal Razzaq) who has been a long time activist in the American Indian Movement (AIM) as well as other Indigenous activist groups, and the head of the Leonard Peltier Defense Committee (selected by Leonard himself).

Islam is not a religion that has come to change the cultures of the people. It has come for the purpose for which all mankind has been created, which is that all of mankind should worship the Creator alone, without ascribing or associating partners with Him or worshiping others besides Him. You can look all over the Islamic world and see that different Muslims peoples maintain their own unique cultures. At the same time, Islam gives all oppressed peoples a viable means of "getting the man's foot off our neck" and confronting the social, economic and spiritual ills that plagues much of our societies, walhamdulillaah.

And so, let us proceed:

Mahir says (which will be quoted from here on out),


Quote: My name is Mahir Abdal Razzaq El



In the past, he has related this exact same story at a masjid in the Southwest, word for word, except using a different name. This detail may not be all that important but may give a clue to something more sinister behind this: DECEPTION! That particular masjid was one of the few who actually removed the article after being informed of it's falsehood, and may Allaah reward them. But anyway:

El is commonly used by those influenced by the teachings of the pseudo-Islamic cult - the MST (Moorish Science Temple) - as a last name, El meaning "God". This is similar to the teachings of the 5%ers (Five Percenters), a.k.a NGE (Nation of Gods and Earths), who are an offshoot of the MST and the NOI (Nation of Islam), who refer to one another as "god", however, in the case of the 5%ers, they tend to make their last names "Allah", meaning 'God', e.g. Kareem "Allah". Bey is another common last name used by followers of the MST.


Quote: and I am a Cherokee Blackfoot American Indian



I am really quite surprised, due to Mahir's "Moorish Science" influence, that he did not say something more stupid like, "I am a Cherokee Blackfoot American Indian and the original American Indians were BLACK! And "red" Indians are actually the result of the racial mixing between the Black OLMECS and the Chinese." That would be more in line with the rhetoric of the followers of "Moorish Science" and it's offshoots. Allaahu ‚Äکalam, perhaps the article was actually edited by the "Message" to remove the more outlandish claims.

For all intents and purposes, Mahir looks to be an Afro-American (see http://www.blackconsciousness.com/media/GRID_PATTERN.ram and also http://www.blackconsciousness.com/media/MILITARY_MAHIR.ram ) which doesn't mean anything necessarily in and of itself because to us Indians, Indians are Indian regardless of skin color, but Mahir is found most frequently among Afrocentrist, pseudo-Muslims and other wannabe Indians, not genuine Native / American Indians. However, let's look into this Cherokee / Blackfoot phenomenon.

In reality, this is a very unlikely mixture of American Indian ancestry. Before the arrival of Europeans, the Cherokee laid claim to an area which today would include the states of NC, SC, VA, WV, KY, GA, AL and TN. Shortly before "Removal", the Cherokee's diminished territorial claims only included small portions of NC, TN, GA, and AL. During "Removal", Cherokees were forcibly marched to eastern Oklahoma. Cherokees who fled before "Removal" went to AK, LA and TX. Still others went as far south as Mexico. A small faction of Cherokees remained in the east hiding in a small area in the mountains of western North Carolina. Today they can be found in and around the area that was "reserved" for them, known as the "Qualla Boundary", a.k.a. the Cherokee Indian Reservation of the Eastern Band of Cherokee.

As far as the Blackfeet, they still remain in the area of their ancestral homeland which today is in the northwest portion of the state of Montana in the USA and the southern portion of the province of Alberta in Canada.

There are no apparent connections between the Cherokee and the Blackfeet. The language of the Cherokee is an Iroquoian language. The language of the Blackfeet is an Algonquian language. They have not shared any traditional tribal territories, nor have they shared tribal territory after the "Removal" of the Cherokee. Traditional religion of the Blackfeet includes the Sun Dance, whereas traditional Cherokee religion includes the Stomp Dance. So where is the connection?

The connection is very easy to make if you believe that American Indian languages, cultures, spiritualities and traditions is something monolithic and all inclusive. However, there are over 500 distinct Indian Nations in the US and Canada, each with their own cultures, languages and traditions, etc. There is no such thing as an "American Indian / Native American" culture, spirituality or language. This kind of assumption (i.e., Indians are all the same) is what produces the stereotypes that cause wannabe Indians, "Indian" Barbie, and "Indian" Nativity sets to flourish, let alone the perpetrators racism and plain old greed.

Needless to say, there is the possibility of a Cherokee / Blackfoot mixture if a Cherokee citizen and a Blackfoot citizen had a relationship that bore offspring from the union of these two Nations. The problem is, however, the enormous distribution of claims of such a union. The claim of either Cherokee ancestry or Blackfoot ancestry or a combination of the two is something widely spread in the east and southeast of the US, eventhough such a union is highly unlikely, yet it's claim is spread on such an enormous scale.

As far as the Cherokee are concerned, then there is a very fitting saying: "Everyone and their momma". Claims to Cherokee ancestry are widespread and laughable, although not very funny. It seems as almost everyone has a "Cherokee Princess grandmother" or Cherokee great uncle or grandfather who was a "chief", "warrior" or "medicine man". Cherokee ancestry is very well documented, so if someone can make the claim of Cherokee ancestry there should really not be much of a problem for them to enroll, especially with such low blood quantum requirements. And if your blood quantum is so low that you can't enroll, then why bother claiming to be a Cherokee?

Most of the Cherokee claimers usually have some sort of tale to explain why they can't legally claim to be Cherokee such as their ancestors separated from the "Trail of Tears" or they hid out in the woods, etc., however, these are simply tales and claims. Or, if they haven't been able to come up with a tale yet, they try to sidestep or avoid the issue altogether, or say "I am Cherokee in my heart", which is really absurd. "Cherokee" is not a religion that you convert to. How can you convert to being "Indian"?

And then there is the infamous ascription to being "Blackfoot". This is a very strange claim, especially due to it's persistency in the East and Southeast so many hundreds of miles away from the tribe of it's namesake.

What seems to be the truth surrounding this appellation is that it was devised to explain away certain racial features or to bury family secrets. Blackfoot seems to be used equally by both blacks and whites. It has been used by blacks to explain their "good hair", light eyes, light skin and "high cheek bones". And by whites to explain their darker skin, dark hair and of course, "high cheek bones". It was used to hide African blood within white families and Caucasian blood within black families.

One clue to this enigma is the fact that it was, at one time in American history, illegal to be an Indian and remain east of the Mississippi. If anything, Indians who could "pass" would have claimed to be "white", or, if they couldn't pass, they would have claimed to be "Black Dutch", "Black Irish" or even "black", than to have to face "Removal", repression and further victimization as an Indian. And while such racial designations as "Black Dutch", "Black Irish", etc. could have been used to hide Indian blood, a designation such as "Blackfoot" never could. So "Blackfoot" is an anomaly even among other fictitious racial classifications.

Another clue is the fact that no one claiming Blackfoot ancestry in the East and Southeast has ever been able to successfully trace their lineages back to the Blackfeet. This is also overwhelmingly true for those claiming Cherokee ancestry, the result of which is usually those individuals starting their own tribe, or joining other fictitious, wannabe tribes, and creating their own "Native American culture" and spirituality, which is misappropriated from American Indian nations, distorted, mixed and abused, all the while claiming to honor those who they are "imitating". Many times these same people are also able to get their hands on funding and services that are specifically set aside for real Indians (who really need it!). They also make the process of legitimate American Indians gaining Federal Recognition that much harder and longer due to so many of them petitioning the Federal Government to gain status as recognized American Indian tribes and nations. So do they honor us or harm us?

In the Messenger of Allaah's , sallallaahu ‚Äکalayhi was sallam, Last Sermon, he says, "the Curse of Allaah is on those who would claim a lineage other than their own." This is more than a sufficient warning for Muslims not to go around "playing Indian".


Quote: who is Muslim.



Mahir is a Muur (Moor) as you will see below at the end of this treatise (see "Muur from Mahir")(update - Mahir is actually a Black Hebrew Israelite - see the update at the end of this article. I keep this article as it is because the theology is born from the same seeds with only minor differences). These "Moors" are not Muslims but pseudo-Muslims who chase after esotericism, junk science, junk knowledge, junk history, and pseudo-esoteric-kufr based Isl.. (well, I don't know what to call it because it is certainly not Islam!). They are not Muslims! There is information available from a variety of sources that explains why they are not Muslims so I will not get into it here. However, I would like to point out one of their beliefs, which is that they believe Timothy Drew, a.k.a. "Noble Drew Ali" was the final Messenger and that he came with his own Qur'an. This is a belief that would negate the Islam of anyone claiming it or believing in it.

It is also highly probable that Mahir is more specifically a Nuwaubian, who are highly influenced by the teachings of the Moorish Science Temple and who also call themselves "Moors". I base this on the fact that Mahir refers to "dynoids (dinoids) and reptoids" (see Muur from Mahir) which is more specific to Nuwaubian teachings than it is to "Moorish Science".

Nuwaubians are the present incarnation of a cult that has been known by many different names and is continuously changing and contradicting is theology, since the late 1960's. They are led by Dwight D. York, a.k.a. "Dr. York", who has had numerous identities and personas, including al-Masih, al-Mahdi, and even God. One of the names which the group was known as in the past is the "Ansaaru Allah" community. Their false ascription to Islam, during that particular manifestation, was exposed by Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips in his book "The Ansaar Cult".

In general, the Afrocentrists making these claims of being Muslim American Indians / Native Americans are people influenced by "Moorish" teachings. They are known as Native American Moors, Yamassee Native American Moors of the Creek Nation (The Creeks already busted them for their deception.), the Washi taw de Dugdamoundyah (Supposedly an ancient "Black Indian" word meaning "dug the mound". Yah? I thought they were "mound builders" not "mound diggers".), and others. They even claim that they are the "real" Indians who basically taught Indians everything they know and have more of a birthright to America than American Indians . They make similar claims with Asians, Europeans and others, the only difference being that these Afrocentrists do not usurp the identities of Europeans, Asians, etc.

They harbor a separatist agenda and philosophy. Therefore, their claims to being Indians are from the roots of their Afrocentric racial superiority complex and their desire to be sovereign, separate entities here in the US. It is also to claim immunity from prosecution due to the criminal activity and fraud that plagues their cults and their followers, being that they are liars and criminals at heart and nurture such anti-social, criminal behavior. Some cases in point are the criminal cases of Dwight D. "Malachi Z." York (who has too many names and titles to enumerate) and the fraud cases of "Her Majestic Imperial Highness, Empress" Verdiacee ""Tiari" Washi taw-Turner (Tunica)" Goston "El-Bey", let alone the numerous murder and other criminal cases surrounding these cults and their followers. They use their claims of being American Indians and "Moors" so that they may claim immunity from prosecution. Real Indians know there is no such thing as American Indian immunity from prosecution, and sovereignty is at the discretion of the US Government. In other words, "what sovereignty"?


Quote: I am known as Eagle Sun Walker.



Mahir may be known as Eagle Sun Walker to other wannabe Indians, but real Indians do not go around with names like Eagle Sun Walker, that is going just a little too far. Besides, Indian names that may be similar are usually more simple and actually have realistic attributes. "Eagle Sun Walker" is too "Hollywood-ish" and too "storybook tale-ish" to be believable. How many eagles do you know who walk on the Sun!? Real Indians have real (and realistic) Indian names and they are given to them usually by their respected Indian elders and family in their own language, not English!


Quote: I serve as a Pipe Carrier Warrior



Well, Cherokees do not have "pipe carriers". That is not a part of their tradition. If there are any Cherokee pipe carriers, they are practicing other nation's traditions. Unfortunately, tales of Cherokee pipe carriers are not uncommon due to wannabes hijacking Cherokee identity as well as (generally) Lakota religion, and usually "Plains Indian" dress. Pipe carrying is something sacred among SOME Native religions and is an integral part of those religions. Any and every Tom, Dick, Harry and Mahir just can't go and become a pipe carrier. Besides, Mahir, who do you carry the pipe for? Which Nation honored you to carry the pipe for their ceremonies? It surely wasn't the Cherokee.

The mixing of Native religions and the mixing of Islam is something highly looked down upon by Indians, and in Islam it is kufr which takes the perpetrator outside of the fold of Islam, i.e. they are no longer Muslims.

Allaah says,

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." (Aali Imran 3:85)

and,

"And mix not truth with falsehood while you know (the truth)." (Al-Baqarah 2:42)

Warrior? I can only shake my head. Warrior is not just some title you are at liberty to label yourself as because you "feel" it. Don't you actually have to physically engage in combat, in a battle, to be a warrior? And real warriors do not only engage in combat or carry weapons but they actually do the things for their people that are going to be a benefit to them, even little things like chopping the firewood for their elders or making sure the less fortunate ones will have something to eat. So does Mahir's perpetuating stereotypes and making false claims do anything to benefit the Cherokee, American Indians in general or Muslims? Generally, warriors in Indian societies come from the best of their men, and that would not include liars, so that seems to exclude Mahir.


Quote: for the Northeastern Band of Cherokee Indians in New York City.



This causes me to remember the Paceآģ Picante Sauce commercials where some cowboys exclaimed with inquisition, "New York City!?!?"

There is no such band, tribe or nation that exists among the Cherokees, and this "Northeastern Band" is just one more of over 200 wannabe "Cherokee tribes" claiming to be Cherokee. The "Sioux" come in second place for the number of wannabe tribes claiming some sort of connection to them.

The Cherokees have never resided in New York as a tribal entity. This "band" of wannabes are headquartered in the "Boogie Down" Bronx in their so-called "urban reservation". They are a group of Afro, Hispanic and Puerto Rican-American wannabes who attend Pow Wows and Drums with their Euro-American wannabe counterparts. You will seldom find any real Indians among these wannabe Pow Wows and Drums, and we are never invited as that would also invite exposure to their falsehood. Most members of this "band" seem to "become Cherokee" through "adoption".

The "band's chief" is named Okena Tsali Littlehawk. He is an Afro-American who is involved with a group named the "Order of the Feather Fraternity" (a.k.a. Feather Fraternity / Feathermen) who take young Afro-American males to a summer camp named Camp Minisink, during an initiation period or "rites of passage" where they shave their heads bald and "play Indian" for the summer ( http://www.feathermen.org/photos/tapout04/Mvc-031s.jpg ).

The "order's" logo is a tipi between two pine trees. This is really odd, as tipis are usually typical of the "Plain's Indian" stereotype, and New York is certainly a long way away from the Plains. However, for those wishing to propagate stereotypes and falsehoods, little details like this is of no consequence.

Okena is "Chief Feather" in the Feather Fraternity - meaning he is their "head man" in propagating these stereotypes against Indians. Okena also makes it a point to label himself ukuwiyuhi, which means "principle chief". This is not a proper title for the tribal leader of a "band" but of a nation, but these "Northeastern Cherokee" claim they are a "band". He makes labeling himself ukuwiyuhi a point to the extent that uku (chief) seems to be part of his legal name as he is listed in the phone directory and official records as Uku O. Littlehawk. Most chiefs do not make "chief" as a part of their legal names, it is merely a title and designation. But the point is, if he was an actual "Cherokee chief" he would have seen through these stereotypes and put a stop to them, not take a lead role in propagating them.

Okena was also on a Tupac Shakur memorial compilation titled "The Rose That Grew From Concrete". He was featured on the track "The Sun & The Moon" which was said in a broken type of Cherokee that sounded "rehearsed"or "practiced" and "indiany" and the inflection was off, kind of like in movies where Native languages are spoken in a manner that is supposed to make it sound authentic (heavy and slow, i.e. Tonto-style) and would never make a difference to those who are not speakers of the Cherokee language. Also some of the words he said in Cherokee were wrong. The main problem is that what the story is relating in Cherokee and what he expresses as it's meaning in English is way off. It is an old Cherokee story relating to a man and a woman and he obviously doesn't understand the analogy. It's an Indian "thang", so to speak. (I do not speak Cherokee and this information was provided to me by Robert Chastain, a Cherokee, and head of the South Carolina Chapter of the American Indian Movement, after conferring with him on the details of that particular recording, "The Sun & The Moon".)


Quote: There are other Muslims in our group.



Well, if these "Muslims" are upon the same creed as Mahir, they are not Muslims and it is already obvious that this group are not Indians, let alone Cherokees.


Quote: For the most part, not many people are aware of the Native American contact with Islam that began over one thousand years ago by some of the early Muslim travelers who visited us. Some of these Muslim travelers ended up living among our people.



Yes, unfortunately this is true, and may be one of the few authentic statements in the whole of the treatise, "Digging for the Red Roots". This information is something that is not widely known among Indians, Americans or Muslims, and in some cases may be purposely being concealed. There is enough authentic and scholarly references to Islamic presence in the Americas before the arrival of Columbus without the need to embellish, exaggerate and lie concerning such information.


Quote: For most Muslims and non-Muslims of today, this type of information is unknown and has never been mentioned in any of the history books.



I wouldn't say never mentioned, more like... not widely available. So where can this information be found? Few scholars have taken up this task, and probably one of the best books relating to this subject would be by Dr. Berry Fell entitled "Saga America".

Much of the information regarding Pre-Columbian Islamic contact would be ignored unless someone is specifically looking for it.

Most Americans seem as if they would rather accept the status-quo historical indoctrination rather than be exposed to something that could potentially "rock their world". Not only does the typical US history textbooks leave out such information as Pre-Columbian contact in the Americas by other nations and peoples, but they also leave out large, relevant, factual portions of the history that they do address and would rather report tales of George Washington "chopping down the cherry tree" than truthful "no holds barred" history.

Just look at the American Indian and the official version of "American History". They have pretty much relegated us to museums, tipis and buckskins. They make our history seem to be nothing more than attacking wagon trains, Indian Wars, and how to plant corn. Or they make it seem our history is nothing more than meeting and greeting the "Pilgrims", celebrating "Thanksgiving", Squanto, how Europeans were the greatest thing to benefit Indians since fry bread, and some more planting corn. All depends on which version of history they want to offer.


Quote: There are many documents, treaties, legislation and resolutions that were passed between 1600s and 1800s that show that Muslims were in fact here and were very active in the comunities in which they lived.



These treaties were initiated between the British Colonial Government, and then the American Government after them, between those governments and Muslim Nations and their citizens as will be shown. This does not imply that these particular nations had contacts or influence upon American Indian nations, but it does prove that Muslims have had a presence in this country even in Colonial times. So Muslims have just as much right to be here in America as some Euro-Americans whose families came over later than these Muslims.


Quote: Treaties such as Peace and Friendship that was signed on the Delaware River in the year 1787 bear the signatures of Abdel-Khak and Muhammad Ibn Abdullah. This treaty details our continued right to exist as a community in the areas of commerce, maritime shipping, current form of government at that time which was in accordance with Islam.



This treaty was a part of the Barbary Treaties (i.e. US treaties with North African nations). This particular treaty was between the United States and Morocco, which was written June 23rd,1786 CE (25 Shaban, 1200 AH) and was later ratified by the US in 1787.

Details of this treaty may be found under the heading "Treaty with Morocco, June 28 and July 15, 1786" at the following web link:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/barmenu.htm

As you will see, this treaty has nothing to do with American Indians or the forgotten, lost sons of Muslim nations. It is a treaty between nations (the US and Morocco) on behalf of those nations and it's citizens.

I believe what Mahir is actually referring to is the "Treaty of Peace and Commerce" of 1787 ( http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1786a.htm ) which was negotiated by Al-Tahir ibn Abdul Haq Fannis (Abdel Khak) and Thomas Barclay and later ratified and signed by Sultan Sidi Muhammad ibn Abdullah, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and George Washington. What I mentioned above also applies to this treaty as well. It is a treaty between nations (the US and Morocco) and has nothing to do with American Indians or the lost, forgotten sons of Muslim Nations.

The above deception is part and parcel of the "Moors" shenanigans. These particular treaties have been used by "Moors" as "evidence" in yet another attempt to claim sovereignty from the US and immunity from it's laws by the claim that these Afrocentrists are actually Moroccan citizens and under the authority of the Moroccan Emperor and the authority of these treaties, however, even if they were Moors, the treaties show that they are subject to the laws and penalties of the US if abroad in that land and vice versa. The above treaty of "Peace and Commerce" was for a period of 50 years, so it is really quite irrelevant other than to demonstrate a relationship between the US and Morocco.

And, as could be expected, these Afrocentrists claim that they are the real Moors and that "the real Moors were BLACK!".


Quote: According to a federal court case from the Continental Congress, we help put the breath of life in to the newly framed constitution. All of the documents are presently in the National Archives as well as the Library of Congress.



This statement is so vague it can not even be researched. It is nothing more than an empty claim. What Federal Court case from the Continental Congress is the statement referring to? Do you realize how many documents are in the National Archives and Library of Congress? So where would someone researching this even begin to look and what would they be looking for? In addition to all of that, who is "we" referring to - American Indians, Muslims or American Indian Muslims?


Quote: If you have access to records in the state of South Carolina, read the Moors Sundry Act of 1790.



The Moors Sundry Act was an act passed by the South Carolina State Legislature granting the subjects of the Sultan of Morocco, residing in South Carolina, the same rights as their "white" counterparts, even to the extent of being jurors. This document is available in the SC State Archives in Columbia, SC. Again, nothing to do with American Indians, American Indian Muslims or the lost, forgotten sons of Muslim Nations.

The Moors Sundry Act is used as another justification for these Afrocentric, pseudo-Islamic "Moors" to claim sovereignty and immunity from the laws of the land, but even this document simply grants the Moors rights equal to other "white" citizens of South Carolina, which, back then, would have been considered a special status, but is now common law, except for the Indians of South Carolina though.


Quote: In a future article, Inshallah, I will go in to more details about the various tribes, their languages; in which some are influenced by Arabic, Persian, Hebrew words.



Alhamdulillaah, he never wrote a future article. Perhaps he had ran out of hot air to blow.

As far as the languages go, then there is a necessity for scholars who are both proficient in Arabic, Persian, Hebrew as well as the different Native languages to compare those words and languages. Perhaps words can be similar, but that does not necessarily mean the words have the same meaning which would be necessary if you make the claim that Arabic words are found in Native languages. That Arabic sounding word could just as well be native to that Native language.

I do not know of one scholar who is both proficient in Arabic and any one of the 100's of Native languages. Native language is not something widely taught or sought after, and many tribes are having to make gallant efforts in trying to preserve their languages.

I have read where Dr. Berry Fell mentions that the Pima seem to have an Arabic influence upon their language but nothing was really offered in order to substantiate this claim.

Inshaa Allaah, some Muslims can take up the task of investigating these matters more thoroughly. But it has been many of my brother's and sister's gullibility, and their having ulterior motives regarding this subject, that has caused them to spread and believe such tales as "Digging for the Red Roots" in the first place. I hope in the future my brothers and sisters will be more willing to investigate such things instead of accepting them at face value.

Any person who wishes to engage in such research shouldn't approach it with an agenda or try to pound a square peg into a round hole. The Muslim is truthful and so should be his research.


Quote: Almost all of the tribes vocabulary include the word Allah.



Again, just another baseless claim. Which tribes have the word Allah as part of their vocabulary? And who went among the more than 500 tribes to see? And as for the tribes that have the word "Allah" in their vocabulary, does Allah in their language mean the same as Allah in the Arabic language?


Quote: The traditional dress code for Indian women includes the kimah and long dresses.



Some may say that I am nit-picking, but what is a kimah? I do not think that Mahir actually knows that a Muslim woman's "head covering" is called a khimar because he is not even a Muslim, and probably only heard it in passing and that is why he referred to it as a kimah, unless he means that traditional Indian dress includes a cap (kimah) for women instead of a Muslim woman's traditional khimar, which he assumes to be "traditional Indian dress".

I have never witnessed such a thing as Indian women wearing Islamic "caps", but Allaahu ‚Äکalam. I believe the "kimah" he is referring to are actually quilts and any other typical head covering which were worn by Indian women in cold weather. Head coverings are not unique just to Muslim women.

Indian women, including Cherokees, take great pride in their hair and generally do not cover it up unless there is a need to such as bad weather. I have never seen any Indian woman with her hair covered, in the past or present, unless it was due to cold, inclement weather and dusty enviroments,etc.

As far as long dresses are concerned, this has not always necessarily been the case. Our way of dress has evolved just as we have evolved (And no, I am not referring to Darwinism.). How Indian woman dressed during early contact is different from how they dressed in the 1700's, is different from how they dressed in the 1800's, is different even in how they dress today. So "traditional" dress is not always necessarily traditional. Even the "traditional" Cherokee "tear dress" is not traditional as it does not even pre-date the Trail of Tears, i.e. "Removal", which occurred in the late 1830's. The tear dress of today is fashioned after a tear dress that has it's origin from the late 1960's, and has undergone modifications even to this day.


Quote: For men, standard fare is turbans and long tops that come down to the knees. If you were to look at any of the old books on Cherokee clothing up until the time of 1832, you will see the men wearing turbans and the women wearing long head coverings.



Long shirts were not uncommon back then and had nothing at all to do with Indians or Islam. Those types of shirts were typical depending on someone's style of dress. Those long tops actually had a European origin. Today, the "traditional" shirt of a Cherokee man is the "ribbon shirt" which definitely is not long or coming down to the knees.

As far as the turbans are concerned, this was adapted by the Cherokee after a delegation of them visited England's Royal Family and decided they should cover up their tattooed heads because the English were terrified by such a sight, so they borrowed the wearing of the turban from some royal servants who happened to be Muslims from India. The Cherokees brought back this form of head dress with them and it ended up becoming fashionable among the Cherokees. The Cherokee gave the turban their own unique "style".

To prove this point that the turban was not indigenous to the Cherokee, we can look at some pictures of Cherokees before the adoption of turbans:



Three of seven young Cherokees, who were escorted by Sir Alexander Cuming to England in 1730 to meet King George II. The Cherokees signed articles of friendship and commerce with representatives of the British Crown. One of the Cherokees was Oukanaekah, later named Attakullaculla or the Little Carpenter.



Ostenaco was a war chief who, in 1756, joined the English in a campaign against the French-allied Shawnee during the Seven Years War ("French and Indian War). His warriors were abandoned by the British troops when their provisions were lost while crossing a swollen river. His band "confiscated" horses from the ungrateful Virginians who retaliated by killing 24 of his party. A period of retaliatory raids began between the Cherokee and colonists. In 1762, the Cherokee captured Fort Loundon (near present Venore TN). Eventually, devastation of the Cherokee country by large colonial armies forced the Cherokee to sue for peace. Lt. Henry Timberlake volunteered to stay with the Cherokee to improve Cherokee-English relations. Ostenaco, along with Stalking Turkey and Pouting Pigeon, visited London in 1762 to see King George III accompanied by Lt. Henry Timberlake and interpreter, William Shorey, who died in route.



Cumnacatogue (also known as Cunne Shote, Stalking Turkey or Standing Turkey) was one of three Cherokee chiefs who travelled to London in 1762 to see King George III. He was the nephew of the Chief "Old Hop" who was also know as Standing Turkey. (Pictures taken from www.cherokeehistory.com)

I believe Mahir gets his assumption of a Cherokee Islamic dress from a famous painting called the "Trail of Tears" by Robert Lindneux in 1942 (see below). Notice the women's head coverings. What must be understood is that these 12,000 or so Cherokees were forcibly marched from the Southern Appalachian Mountains some 1200 miles to eastern Oklahoma, in the middle of winter, losing over 4000 Cherokee kin and family members along the way. Keep in mind that this is an artist's conceptualization of his own interpretation of what a scene from the "Trail of Tears" may have looked like, and it is not based on an actual eyewitness account by the artist as the painting was created over 100 years later!



"Trail of Tears" as painted by Robert Lindneux in 1942 CE.


Quote: The last Cherokee chief who had a Muslim name was Ramadhan Ibn Wati of the Cherokees in 1866.



It is hard to tell whether Mahir is referring to a "last Cherokee chief" or a "last Cherokee chief with a Muslim name". There is no "last Cherokee chief" as the Cherokee still have "chiefs" to this day. As far as the "last Cherokee chief with a Muslim name", then who were the other Cherokee chiefs who supposedly had Muslim names?

There is no such Cherokee chief named Ramadhan Ibn Wati in all of Cherokee history. The chief of the Cherokee in 1866, who I believe Mahir is alluding to, was General Stand Watie, who, although being chosen by a faction "mix-bloods" as their chief, was not the principle chief of the Cherokees - which was Chief John Ross.

John Ross' Cherokee name was Guwisguwu. He was born of a Scottish father and a 1/4 Cherokee mother. And, like the overwhelming majority of mixed-bloods, was a Christian, to the extent of being a professor of that religion.

Stand Watie's father's name was Oo-wati in Cherokee, meaning "the ancient one". His father was also a Christian and went by his Christian name of David Oowatie. His mother was half-Cherokee, and was also a Christian and known by the name Susannah. Chief Stand Watie's Cherokee name was Takertawker, which means "he stands". Stand Watie, who was also a Christian, was given the Christian name of Isaac, however, he preferred the English version of his name "Stand" to the name Isaac. Later, the "Oo" was dropped from "Oo-watie" and the family name became Watie (sometimes being spelled Waite).

It is amazing that an Afrocentrist would use a Confederate General, fighting to defend the institution of chattel slavery of Africans and their descendants, among other things, to propagate an Islamic / Cherokee connection. I believe he makes this exaggeration due to Stand Watie having a son by the name Saladin, the anglicized version of the Arabic name Salah ud-Deen. The Watie family were a Christian Cherokee family, as were the majority of Cherokee families, which was one of the reasons of so many Cherokees adopting the institution of chattel slavery, while it was the "traditionalists" who had opposed chattel slavery. Also, Saladin was not all that uncommon of a name back then. I have been able to find at least four references to Cherokees named Saladin.

I have no idea how the name Ramadhan was twisted around to refer to Chief Stand Watie. It is obviously an outright lie and the only source for it is Mahir himself. If anything it would seem that Mahir would have logically attempted to rename Chief Stand, Ishaq in reference to his Christian name Isaac but, inshaa Allaah, that deception would be exposed as well.

If there was any semblance of Islam among Indians, it would seem that there would at least be one Indian named Muhammad, as this is the most popular name in the Islamic world and the world at large. However, I have not seen the existence of this name among Indians, wa Allaahu ‚Äکalam. Additionally, even after the genocide waged upon us and the banning of our traditional religions, these religions have still been able to survive, however we do not find remnants of Islam surviving among American Indians. If anything survived from Islam it would at least seem that the "pillars of Islam" would have survived along with common terms and names, such as Allaah, Muhammad, salaah, Ramadhaan, Islam.

Even among those Muslim slaves, that were brought over to America from Africa, you could still find remnants of Islam among them and clues to their being Muslims even today. Where are the remnants and clues among American Indians? It is not that I believe it is not possible, however, I disagree with Muslims making these assertions unless substantial evidence for such claims can be provided. Making these assertions without providing the incontrovertible evidence for such claims only destroys Muslim's integrity and trustworthiness, and makes it just that much harder to have a dialogue with and to present the Islamic da'wah to American Indians, wa Allaahul musta'an.

The Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu 'alayhi was sallam said, “The Hour will not begin until no one on earth still says, 'Allaah, Allaah.'" (Ahmad)

We do no even find the saying of "Allaah, Allaah" among the Indians.


Quote: Cities across the United States and Canada bear names that are of Indian and Islamic derivation.



Again, this is merely a claim with nothing offered to substantiate it. How many cities across the US and Canada can be confirmed to have an Islamic name origin with incontrovertible evidence, and can these names be proven to have been given to them by Indians and Muslims or Indian Muslims? Some of these places were actually given these "Islamic" names by "good ole American white boys". Cities in the US have names that have name origins from all over the world.

The best evidence is documents that actually show these place names to have an Arabic origin such as the Pre-Columbian Arabic maps of the Americas, Carribean and Pacific Islands (Maps such Maui's map of Hawaii and the Pacific, and al-Idrisi's map, etc.). Also, the pre-Columbian journals and text of such Islamic voyages to Ard al-Majoolah or "the unknown land", i.e. the Americas, or the "Sea of Darkness and Fog", i.e. the Atlantic Ocean (Text such as al-Masudi's "The Meadows of Gold and Quarries of Jewels".). And finally, those places that have Arabic inscriptions and those places being known by Arabic names (Places such as the Muslim schools and Islamic community in Pre-Columbian Nevada.).


Quote: Have you ever wondered what the name Tallahassee means? It means that He - Allah will deliver you sometime in the future.



This is actually what is the most disappointing of all. Out of all the Muslims who speak and are familiar with Arabic, could none of them have unmasked this falsehood and let it be known that "Tallahassee" does not have an Arabic meaning which translates as "He - Allah will deliver you sometime in the future"? Shouldn't this have lead to the questioning of the credibility of the entire article "Digging for the Red Roots"? Because of such antics, now it is the credibility of the Muslims, who propagate such falsehoods, that is questioned.

Tallahassee is a Mvskoke (Muskogee) word which means "old town" or like an "old abandoned place", i.e. a "ghost town".

Allaah says,

"It is only those who believe not in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allaah, who fabricate falsehood, and it is they who are liars." (An-Nahl 16:105)

and,

"Cursed be the liars," (Adh-Dhariyat 51:10)

Be warned brothers and sisters, there are other tales out there similar to "Digging for the Red Roots". One is called "Reviving the Classical Wisdom of Islam in the Cherokee Tradition" by Dr. Robert Dickson Crane (Faruq Abd'al Haqq), who I plan to deal with in the future, inshaa Allaah. Also beware of any treatise that refers to "Sequoyah's Syllabary" as having an Arabic influence, or would refer back to "Digging for the Red Roots" or "Reviving" as evidence and support for it's positions.

Allaah says,

"Those who disbelieved and hinder (men) from the Path of Allaah, for them We will add torment over the torment; because they used to spread corruption. (An-Nahl 16:88)

and He ta 'ala says,

"And those who do not witness falsehood, and if they pass by some evil play or evil talk, they pass by it with dignity." (Al-Furqan 25:72)

The responsibility is upon the Muslims to stop such falsehood from spreading and there are alternative texts that are actually based upon proofs and evidences as it relates to Islam and American Indians, and Muslim "adventures" in the Americas B.C. (before Columbus), wa billaahit tawfeeq.

Subhanak Allaahumma Wa bihamdika, Ashadu an la illaha illa Anta, astaghfiruka wa a'toobu 'alaik.

Abu Muhammad Hasan Grooms al BeeDee



Muur from Mahir


Mahir's mini-biography from http://www.blackconsciousness.com :

COMPUTER ANALYSIS, METAPHYSICIAN

Brother Mahir is a true warrior, but he limits his public appearances. When he does lecture, he focuses only on upper level esoteric information. Brother Mahir Abdal Razzaaq El masters some of the technologies of today. He is of the Cherokee tribe known as Eagle Sun Walker and a Pipe Carrier Warrior of the Cherokees in New York.

Here are a few more memorable "Moorish" quotes from Mahir Abdal Razzaq El:

On the Mother Plane, Mahir says:

"the mother plane is actually a Battle Star. The New testament refers to it as the planet of Wormwood. It is about 4 times the size of the Earth. It is what they used to destroy the planet in this system called Maldec. Reptoids and Dynoids took off from there, to make that a battle fortress to hold off the eventual humans coming into this system. Humans haven't always been here in spite of what they told you."

On the name origin of Canada, Mahir says:

"Canada is named in honor of the Canaanites. Land of the Canaanites. Once North America was referred to as Northwest Afrika. New York, the empire state, was once called Morocco. Go back to the memoirs of Columbus. He thought he had never left Afrika, because everywhere he went, he saw Black people everywhere."

On the Native American origins within the Sirius Star System, Mahir says:

"Native Americans, remnants of the Lemurian race, call on or recognize the same power that the Hebrew Israelites did. If you study Native American culture and you study language, you will find that they pay respect to the same deity. They are not Jews. Allegedly, Native Americans are from one of the 5 planets within Sirius. The Hebrew race is from another planet in the Sirius Star System. They both adhere to the same type of culture in that star system."

Update:

In fairness to Mahir he recently claims to be a Black Hebrew Israelite... by heritage (as told to me by Mahir himself). The Black Hebrew Israelites are like a Jewish version of Elijah (Mr. Muck Muck - Bogans) Poole's and the calypso singer, Louis (Fraud & Con) Eugene Walcott's so-called "Nation of Islam". He also claims that Allaah is not the proper name of Allaah (it is Yah according to them) and that the Qur'an was originally written in Hebrew, not Arabic. You can also purchase the dvds (at $25 a pop) and listen to Mahir disparaging Islam and the Muslims at www.blackconciousness.com.

In any case, all of these groups; NOI, NGE (5%s), Nawaubian, Hebrew Israelites, etc., etc., etc. all have an entwined history and common themes and characteristics... Numerous names, numerous titles, and contradictory, ever-evolving theologies.
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Old 04-04-2007, 09:05 AM   #27
Abdul salaam
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 8
Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

Wa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu,
Thanks for the effort and research you put forth to debunk the myth.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:50 PM   #28
Sabiqoon
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Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

Assalaamu ALaykum,

I really like this thread. I had a family friend/acquantaince who was Cherokee married to a Syrian guy. She converted to Islaam. ANd you know the brother's article made me laugh because in Illinios, Eeevrybody almost claimed to be Cherokee, black or white. It is kinda like the being "sayid" phenomenon in the Muslim world(not trying to offend anyone but it is kinda sorta true).

Also, for that article that brother wrote, when the guy mentioned about Cherokee in NYC, I was kinda like, what? could there be? I was thinking the same thing.

This topic is very needed. Especially since a lot of the native american reservations are plagued as was mentioned by alcoholism, drug abuse, gambling, prostitution, poor infrastructure. ALso, christianity has been spoon fed so I dont know how much contact these folks get to Islaam.

I wanted to do an elective rotation in an AMerican Indian Territory but I dont know what to expect or how to give da'wah.


Plus the Native American people are a heterogenous group of people with different tribes and languages and even to some extent beliefs.
For example there is tribe in the Northwest region known as the Mecca tribe.

Also as far as beliefs go they are also heterogenous. There is however in many of the cultures a central belief in the "Great Spirit"



Bottom line is that the message of Islaam should get to these folks and it is hard because alot of the ones that live in the US are integrated such that you do not know if he or she is native american unless they mention it or unless you got a Native American territory.

This topic is very special for me. I have always took an interest in various cultures of the world and the people and their history. Please give me an update and if there is anything I can do. If you guys can visit reservations then that would be a great idea.

Dont forget also the natives of Alaska and Hawaii.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:54 PM   #29
Abdul salaam
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 8
Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

I believe the brother Hasan, is actually native american his self......He is likely a fountain of info.....If you read his post it's very interesting, eventhough it's countering the 1st post on this thread, which he proved to be false.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:35 AM   #30
Asha
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Madinat Khalifornia
Posts: 2,165
Re: Native American Muslims - Over 200 years?!

Mashallah....
i would have never thought!! i once heard that muslims were in North America b4 the europeans but all this i never thought..
its a shame what happened to them....
I put colombus right up there with hitler and bush
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