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Old 02-13-2006, 07:23 PM   #1
ChicagoAtif
Qabeelat Wasat
 
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The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Salaam Alaikum,

Can someone tell me if the quotes found on this site are authentic or not?

[MOD.Edit: No outside links please]

Jazkhallah Khayr
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Qabeelat Wasat

The Messenger of Allaah (saws) said, There will never cease to exist a band from my Ummah, fighting for the decree of Allah, over-powering their enemy, they will not be harmed by those who oppose them, until the hour approaches them and they are upon it (i.e. fighting for the truth) - narrated by Muslim.

Shaykh al Islam Ibn Taymiyyah:"In fact they are in the middle path amongst the sects of the Ummah, just as this Ummah is in the middle path amongst (other) nations"

Imaam Abdullaah Ibn al-Mubaarak and Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said, If the people disagree (ikhtilaaf) regarding anything, then look at what the Mujaahidoon say- since the Truth is with them; because Allaah says, As for those who wage Jihaad in Us (for Our Cause), We will surely guide them to Our Paths. al-Ankaboot: 69. Refer to Majmoo al-Fataawaa (28/442).

Last edited by feras04; 02-15-2006 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:48 PM   #2
Yusuf
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

I don't intend to cause conflict but most the stuff on the entire website is not authentic. Also a quote may be authentic but the explanation and presentation of that quote is where the misguidance lies. Likewise, the science of fiqh being superior to the science of hadeeth, or vice-versa, is an old debate. It was said best by one scholar when asked whether or not one should study hadeeth or if one should study fiqh, the scholar said to be both: a muhaddith and a faqeeh.

And Allah knows best.
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:53 PM   #3
ChicagoAtif
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Jazakhallah Khayr brother

Can you provide some info on where I can find more info on this debate between the study of fiqh vs. study of ahadeeth. Maybe an article or sumthing?
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Qabeelat Wasat

The Messenger of Allaah (saws) said, There will never cease to exist a band from my Ummah, fighting for the decree of Allah, over-powering their enemy, they will not be harmed by those who oppose them, until the hour approaches them and they are upon it (i.e. fighting for the truth) - narrated by Muslim.

Shaykh al Islam Ibn Taymiyyah:"In fact they are in the middle path amongst the sects of the Ummah, just as this Ummah is in the middle path amongst (other) nations"

Imaam Abdullaah Ibn al-Mubaarak and Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal said, If the people disagree (ikhtilaaf) regarding anything, then look at what the Mujaahidoon say- since the Truth is with them; because Allaah says, As for those who wage Jihaad in Us (for Our Cause), We will surely guide them to Our Paths. al-Ankaboot: 69. Refer to Majmoo al-Fataawaa (28/442).
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:53 AM   #4
Yusuf
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

I have read an article in the past that was a response to the article which you are asking about, however I cannot remember where I read it. Just to offer some advice, I would not waste my time even trying to find the response or refutation to the article. We should just try our best to assist Islam with a sincere intention seeking to please Allah and worship Him properly as that is His right over us. As the scholars have stated, if a student of knowledge wastes his time in any matter, although it may appear beneficial and knowledge-based, it is a pitfall for him or her that Shaytaan traps a person in. Shaytaan deceives us by busying us with a deed that is less virtuous than another deed. Perhaps this subject was discussed and 'debated' by 'ulamaa of the past, but for us I don't think it is necessary to debate which is better to study.. let us just study one of them. I'm afraid if one delves into debating I think a person would end up never study either one and just continue debating.

In any case, here is the full text of what I had mentioned before regarding being both a muhaddith and a faqeeh. I am posting this to encourage my advice to join between both sciences of Islam rather than insisting one is better than the other, which only encourages an unhealthy party spirit type attitude. I hope you find it beneficial and encouraging for you. And Allah knows best.


Shaykh Saalih ibn Fawzaan ibn Abdullaah al-Fawzaan was asked, Noble Shaykh, there are those from amongst the people who do not distinguish between a muhaddith (scholar of hadeeth) and a faqeeh. In your view, O Noble Shaykh, which of the two are better for the student of knowledge to become? A muhaddith or a faqeeh?

He replied:

It is better to be a muhaddith and a faqeeh. So by becoming a muhaddith, one will be able to relate the ahaadeeth with their asaaneed (chains of narration) and he will know their narrators, he will know their levels and he will understand their meanings.

So the muhaddith is the one who is concerned with the narration of the hadeeth, its isnaad and its narrators. He knows the saheeh from the hasan and daeef. He knows what is fabricated or forged, this is the muhaddith. And the faqeeh is the one who understands the meanings of these texts and he derived rules and regulations (ahkaam) from them. So it is befitting for the student of knowledge to combine between two affairs: between relating the texts and distinguishing their saheeh from their weak; then he must have knowledge of their meanings and whatever is extracted from them in terms of ahkaam. So these ones are the people of narration and investigation (riwaayah wad-diraayah), and they are called fuqahaaulmuhadditheen.

Indeed, the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said, The example of my being sent is like the rain that drops upon the earth. So from the earth is that area which absorbs the water and sprout herbage. So the people drink from it and graze around it

This is the example of the muhaddithul-faqeeh who preserves the texts for the people and remains concerned with them. He understands their meaning and explains their meanings and secrets to the people. And the rain drops upon another area which has dry soil, so it does not sprout herbage. It holds the water and the people are able to irrigate and take drink from it This is the example of the huffaadh (memorizers) who are not concerned with memorizing the meanings of the Quraan. They are only concerned with retaining it and keeping free from alien elements. So there is a great excellence in this as well. There is a benefit for the Ummah when the Ummah protects the texts of its Shareeah and honour from alien elements. So they have a great virtue. However, they are at a lower level than those who came before them from the people of ar-riwaayah wad-diraayah (narration and investigation). These ones are to be called the people of riwaayah (narration) only.

And the third group and refuge is sought with Allaah is plain land which holds no water, nor does it retain any herbage. This is the example of those who do not accept the guidance of Allaah which His Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) came with. And they do not raise their heads with it. [In reference to the hadeeth related by al-Bukhaaree (no. 79) and Muslim (no. 2282).]
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Old 02-15-2006, 01:30 PM   #5
alexandalus
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yusuf
I don't intend to cause conflict but most the stuff on the entire website is not authentic. Also a quote may be authentic but the explanation and presentation of that quote is where the misguidance lies. Likewise, the science of fiqh being superior to the science of hadeeth, or vice-versa, is an old debate. It was said best by one scholar when asked whether or not one should study hadeeth or if one should study fiqh, the scholar said to be both: a muhaddith and a faqeeh.

And Allah knows best.
I just googled the article and every single quote has a referrence that can be checked.
Not agreeing with what is quoted does not make the quote inauthentic.
Also the quotes are given without commentary and are explicit, what misguided presentation are you talking about?
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Old 02-15-2006, 02:20 PM   #6
Yusuf
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandalus
Also the quotes are given without commentary and are explicit, what misguided presentation are you talking about?
Please understand that I did not say another of the quotes are unathentic, rather the presentation of them is where the problem lies. With that being said, quotes do indeed require explanation and cannot always be taken at face value. Rather there is a history and a context to why the Salaf said what they said on this issue.

In all honesty a person can equally compose or even translate a classical book, for example by al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (rahimahullah), about the virtues of the science and scholars of hadeeth and if you had not read the article about the virtues of the science and scholars fiqh you would think the exact opposite. Rather all of the quotes which have been said by the Salaf should be taken collectively and one should not pick and choose. And the aim of the author, and Allah knows best, seems to be to attack recent scholars from Ahl as-Sunnah who specialized in hadeeth, namely Shaykh al-Albaanee (rahimahullah).

This is not to fuel the 'debate,' but for example, look at the following quotes all taken from Sharaf Ashaab al-Hadeeth (Nobility of the People of Hadeeth) by al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (rahimahullah):
  • Sahl Ibn Abdullaah az-Zaahid said: "Whoever wants the worldly life and the Hereafter, then let him write the Hadeeth."
  • Abdullaah Ibn Daawood said: "The Hadeeth is honour. Whoever wants the world for it will get the world and whoever wants the Hereafter by it will get the Hereafter."
  • Hasan Ibn Mansoor al-Jassaas said: "I said to Ahmad Ibn Hanbal: To what point should a man write Hadeeth? He said: Until he dies."
  • Aboo Abdullaah Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: "I shall study Hadeeth until I enter the grave."
  • Sufyaan ath-Thawree said: "I do not know of any action upon the face of the earth more noble than the study of Hadeeth for whoever wishes to seek the Face of Allaah by it."
  • Wakee Ibnul Jarraah said: "If the Hadeeth were not more noble to me than tasbeeh (glorifying Allaah), I would not have narrated."
  • Wakee Ibnul Jarraah said: "Allaah has not been worshipped by something more noble than the Hadeeth."
  • Aboo Mansoor Ibn Sallaam al-Faqeeh said: "There is nothing heavier upon the people of heresy and more hated by them than listening to the Hadeeth and its narration with its isnaad.
  • Ahmad Ibn Hanbal mentioned the hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam): "The Ummah will divide into more than seventy sects..." So he said: "If they are not the people of Hadeeth, then I do not know who they are!"
  • Abul-Hasan Muhammad Ibn Abdullaah Ibn Bishr said: "I saw the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) in a dream so I said: Who is the Saved Sect from the seventy-three sects? He said: You, O people of Hadeeth."
  • From Saeed Ibn Yaqoob at-Taaliqaanee or other than him said: "Ibnul Mubaarak mentioned the hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam): "There shall remain a group from my Ummah..." Then he said:
    "According to me, they are the people of Hadeeth."
  • From Fudhayl Ibn Ziyaad who said: "I asked Ahmad Ibn Hanbal - and he was mentioning the hadeeth: "There shall remain a group from my Ummah..." - so he said: "If they are not the people of Hadeeth, then I do not who they are!"
  • Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Mahboob said: "Aboo Eesaa at-Tirmidthee informed us while he was mentioning the hadeeth of Muaawiyah Ibn Qurah from his father who said that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: "A group from my Ummah shall remain victorious. Those who forsake them will not be able to harm them..." Aboo Eesaa said: Muhammad Ibn Ismaaeel [al-Bukhaaree] said: Alee Ibnul Madeenee said: They are the people of Hadeeth."
  • Ishaaq Ibn Ahmad said: "Muhammad Ibn Ismaaeel al-Bukhaaree informed us - and he was mentioning the hadeeth of Moosaa Ibn Uqbah from Abee az-Zubayr from Jubayr from the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam): "There shall remain a group from my Ummah..." So al-Bukhaaree said: It means the people of Hadeeth."
  • Abdaan said: "They (the stranges) are the early people of Hadeeth."
  • Abee Haatim ar-Raazee said: "There has not been in any nation from amongst the nations since Allaah created Aadam (alayhis-salaam), trustworthy ones memorizing the narrations of the Messengers except in this Ummah." So a man said: 'O Abaa Haatim, perhaps they may relate a hadeeth which has no basis, nor is it authentic.' So he said: "Their scholars know the authentic from the weak, so they relate that with knowledge in order to explain to those who come after them that they distinguished the narrations and memorized them." Then the man said: 'May Allaah have mercy upon Aboo Zurah. He - by Allaah - used to exert himself in the memorization of narrations from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).'
  • Sufyaan ath-Thawree said: "The Angels are the guardians of the sky and the people of Hadeeth are the guardians of the earth."
  • Imaam ash-Shaafiee said: "If I were to see a man from the people of Hadeeth, it would be as if I had seen the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) living."
  • From Abee Bakr al-Maroozee that Abaa Abdullaah - meaning Ahmad Ibn Hanbal - said: "According to me, there are not a people better than the people of Hadeeth. They do not know anything except the Hadeeth."
  • Haaroon ar-Rasheed said: "I searched for four, so I found them in four. I searched for disbelief (kufr), so I found it in the Jahmiyyah. I searched for kalaam (rhetoric) and controversy (shaghab), so I found it in the Mutazilah. I searched for the lie, so I found it with the Raafidhah. I searched for the truth, so I found it with the people of Hadeeth."
  • Aboo Jafar an-Nufaylee said: "If there is anyone upon the face of the earth who is saved, then it is these who study the Hadeeth."
  • Jafar Ibn Muhammad said: al-Hasan al-Qaadee said: I heard Qutaybah Ibn Saeed saying: "If you see a man loving the people of Hadeeth like Yahyaa Ibn Saeed al-Qattaan and Abdur-Rahmaan Ibn Mahdee and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and Ishaaq Ibn Raahawayh - and he mentioned some people - then he is upon the Sunnah, and whoever opposes this, then know that he is an innovator."

So all of these quotes of the Salaf are an apparent praise of the scholars of hadeeth and it's science. Ironically at the same time the collector of these quotes also has another book called Al-Faqeeh wal-Muttafaqqih, whom the author of the article quoted to support his argument that the science of fiqh is greater than the science of hadeeth. Why weren't these quotes I just mentioned included in the article? Why was only one book of al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee chosen to quote from?

So as the advice I shared states, strive to be both: a muhaddith and a faqeeh. And where is the harm and error in this advice? May Allah make us from those who can attain this status for His Sake.

And Allah knows best.

Last edited by Yusuf; 02-15-2006 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 02-15-2006, 02:56 PM   #7
alexandalus
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

I still don't see the controversy akhi. And I don't think the article in question really argues against the study of hadith at all.

This is the article, without any outside links, in case anyone wants to see it:

The Superiority of Fiqh Over Hadith
by Shaykh Gibril F. Haddad



{He gives wisdom to whomever He will, and whoever receives wisdom receives immense good} (2:269). "He for whom Allh desires great good, He grants him (superlative) understanding in the Religion (yufaqqihhu/yufqihhu f al-dn). I only distribute and it is Allh Who gives. That group shall remain in charge of the Order of Allh, unharmed by those who oppose them, until the coming of the Order of Allh."1

Imm al-Shfi` said: "You [the scholars of hadth] are the pharmacists but we [the jurists] are the physicians." Mull `Al al-Qr commented: "The early scholars said: The hadth scholar without knowledge of fiqh is like a seller of drugs who is no physician: he has them but he does not know what to do with them; and the fiqh scholar without knowledge of hadth is like a physician without drugs: he knows what constitutes a remedy, but does not have it available."2

Imm Ahmad is related by his students Ab Tlib and Humayd ibn Zanjyah to say: "I never saw anyone adhere more to hadth than al-Shfi`. No one preceded him in writing down hadth in a book." The meaning of this is that al-Shfi` possessed the intelligence of hadth after which Ahmad sought, as evidenced by the latter's statement: "How rare is fiqh among those who know hadth!" This is a reference to the hadth: "It may be one carries understanding (fiqh) - meaning: memorizes the proof-texts of fiqh - without being a person of understanding (faqh)."3 The Salaf and Khalaf elucidated this rule in many famous statements showing that, for all the exalted status of the Muhaddith, yet the Faqh excels him:


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Hadth Misguides Those Devoid of Fiqh
======================================

* Ibn Ab Zayd al-Mlik reports Sufyn ibn `Uyayna as saying: "Hadth is a pitfall (madilla) except for the fuqah'," and Mlik's companion `Abd Allh ibn Wahb said: "Hadth is a pitfall except for the Ulema. Every memorizer of hadth that does not have an Imm in fiqh is misguided (dll), and if Allh had not rescued us with Mlik and al-Layth [ibn Sa`d], we would have been misguided."4 Ibn Ab Zayd comments: "He [Sufyn] means that other than the jurists might take something in its external meaning when, in fact, it is interpreted in the light of another hadth or some evidence which remains hidden to him; or it may in fact consist in discarded evidence due to some other [abrogating] evidence. None can meet the responsibility of knowing this except those who deepened their learning and obtained fiqh."
Imm al-Haytam said something similar.5 Ibn Wahb is also reported to say: "I met three hundred and sixty learned people of knowledge but, without Mlik and al-Layth, I would have strayed."6 Another versions states: "Were it not for Mlik ibn Anas and al-Layth ibn Sa`d I would have perished; I used to think everything that is [authentically] related from the Prophet - Allh bless and greet him - must be put into practice."7 Another version has: "I gathered a lot of hadths and they drove me to confusion. I would consult Mlik and al-Layth and they would say to me, 'take this and leave this.'"8 Ibn Wahb had compiled 120,000 narrations according to Ahmad ibn Slih..9 Hence, Ibn `Uqda replied to a man who had asked him about a certain narration: "Keep such hadths to a minimum for, truly, they are unsuitable except for those who know their interpretation. Yahy ibn Sulayman narrated from Ibn Wahb that he heard Mlik say: 'Many of these hadths are [a cause for] misguidance; some hadths were narrated by me and I wish that for each of them I had been flogged with a stick twice. I certainly no longer narrate them!'"10 By his phrase, "Many of these hadths are misguidance," Mlik means their adducing them in the wrong place and meaning, because the Sunna is wisdom and wisdom is to place each thing in its right context.11

* Ibn al-Mubrak said: "If Allh had not rescued me with Ab Hanfa and Sufyn [al-Thawr] I would have been like the rest of the common people." Al-Dhahab relates it as: "I would have been an innovator."12


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The Imms of Hadth Defer to the Imms of Fiqh
===============================================

* Imm Ahmad's teacher, Yahy ibn Sa`d al-Qattn, despite his foremost status as the Master of hadth Masters and expert in narrator - recommendation and discreditation, would not venture to extract legal rulings from the evidence but followed in this the fiqh of Ab Hanfa as he explicitly declared: "We do not belie Allh. We never heard better than the juridical opinion (ra') of Ab Hanfa, and we followed most of his positions."13 Similarly, Muhammad ibn `Abd Allh ibn `Abd al-Hakam said: "If it were not for al-Shfi` I would not have known how to reply to anyone. Because of him I know what I know."14 As for Muhammad ibn Yahy al-Dhuhl (d. 258) of Khursn, whom Ab Zur`a ranked above Imm Muslim and who is considered an Amr al-Mu'minn f al-Hadth ("Commander of the Faithful in the Science of Hadth"), he never considered himself a non-muqallid but said: "I have made Ahmad ibn Hanbal an Imm in all that stands between me and my Lord."15 Mis`ar ibn Kidm said the same with regard to Imm Ab Hanfa.16


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Knowledge Is Not Memorization but a Light
=========================================

* Fiqh is the context of Mlik's statement: "Wisdom and knowledge are a light by which Allh guides whomever He pleases; it does not consist in knowing many things"17 and al-Shfi`'s: "Knowledge is what benefits. Knowledge is not what one has memorized."18 Similarly, al-Dhahab defined knowledge in Islm (al-`ilm) as "Not the profusion of narration, but a light which Allh casts into the heart. Its condition is followership (ittib`) and the flight away from egotism (haw) and innovation."19 All this elucidates al-Hasan al-Basr report that the Prophet - Allh bless and greet him - said: "The purpose and energy of the Ulema is towards addressing needs while the purpose and energy of fools is to narrate" (himmat al-`ulam' al-ri`ya wa himmat al-sufah' al-riwya).20


================================================== ==============
The Hadth of the Jurists is Preferable to That of the Non-Jurists
================================================== ==============

* Wak` preferred long-chained narrations through the fuqah' to short-chained ones through non-fuqah' and said: "The hadth current among the jurists is better than the hadth that is current among the hadth scholars."21 This is a foundational rule in the School of Imm Ab Hanfa. Like Yahy al-Qattn, Wak` did not make ijtihd but followed the positions of Ab Hanfa.22

* Al-A`mash (Ab Muhammad Sulaymn ibn Mahrn al-Asad the Tbi` 61/-148) also said: "The hadth that jurists circulate among themselves is better than that which hadth narrators circulate among themselves."23

* Ibn Rajab said that Ab Dwd in his Sunan was more concerned with the
jurisprudence of the hadth than with its chains of transmission.24


================================================== =
Knowing the Hadth is Different From Practicing It
================================================== =

* Sufyn al-Thawr used to say to the hadth scholars: "Come forward, O weak ones!"25 He also said: "If hadth were a good thing it would have vanished just as all goodness has vanished," and "Pursuing the study of hadth is not part of the preparation for death, but a disease that preoccupies people." Al-Dhahab commented: "He said this verbatim. He is right in what he said because pursuing the study of hadth is other than the hadth itself."26


================================================== =
Understanding the Hadth is Superior to Knowing It
================================================== =

* Sufyn also said: "The explanation (tafsr) of the hadth is better than the hadth."27 Another wording has: "The explanation of the hadth is better than its audition."28 Ab `Al al-Naysabr said: "We consider understanding superior to memorization."29

* Ishq ibn Rhyah said: "I would sit in Iraq with Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Yahy ibn Ma`n, and our companions, rehearsing the narrations from one, two, three routes of transmission ... But when I said: What is its intent? What is its explanation? What is its fiqh? They would all remain mute except Ahmad ibn Hanbal."30

* The perspicuity and fiqh of Ab Thawr among the hadth Masters is famous. A woman stood by a gathering of scholars of hadth comprising Yahy ibn Ma`n, Ab Khaythama, Khalaf ibn Salim, and others. She heard them saying: "The Prophet - Allh bless and greet him - said," and "So-and-so narrated," and "No one other than So-and-so narrated," etc. Whereupon she asked them: "Can a woman in her menses wash the dead?" for that was her occupation. No one in the entire gathering could answer her, and they began to look at one another. Ab Thawr arrived, and they referred her to him. She asked him the same question and he said: "Yes, she can wash the dead, as per the hadth of al-Qsim from `A'isha: 'Your menses are not in your hand,'31 and her narration whereby she would scrub the Prophet's - Allh bless and greet him - hair at a time she was menstruating.32 If the head of the living can be washed [by a woman in her menses], then a fortiori the dead!" Hearing this, the hadth scholars said: "Right! So-and-so narrated it, and So-and-so told us, and we know it from such - and - such a chain," and they plunged back into the narrations and chains of transmission. The woman said: "Where were you all until now?"33

* Ibn `Abd al-Barr cites Imm Ahmad as saying: "From where does Yahy ibn Ma`n know al-Shfi`? He does not know al-Shfi` nor has any idea what al-Shfi` says!"34 Ibn Rhyah similarly conceded defeat before al-Shfi`'s jurisprudence although himself reputed for fiqh.35


================================================== ==============
Most Hadth Scholars Do Not Possess Intelligence of the Hadth
================================================== ==============

* `Abd al-Razzq al-San`n, Sufyn's contemporary, was the teacher of the pillars of hadth memorization in their time - Ahmad, Ibn Rhyah, Ibn Ma`n, and Muhammad ibn Yahy al-Dhuhl. Yet when Muhammad ibn Yazd al-Mustaml asked Ahmad: "Did he [`Abd al-Razzq] possess fiqh?" Ahmad replied: "How rare is fiqh among those who know hadth!"36

* Anas ibn Srn said: "I came to Kfa and found in it 4,000 persons pursuing hadth and 400 persons who had obtained fiqh."37

* Ibn `Abd al-Salm said: "The majority of hadth scholars are ignorant in fiqh."38 A majority of 90% according to Anas ibn Srn - among the Salaf!

* Al-Dhahab said: "The majority of the hadth scholars have no understanding, no diligence in the actual knowledge of hadth, and no fear of Allh regarding it."39 All of the authorities al-Dhahab listed as "those who are imitated in Islm" are Jurisprudents and not merely hadth masters.

* Al-Sakhw in his biography of Ibn H.ajar entitled al-Jawhir wa al-Durar relates similar views:

Al-Friq said: "One who knows chains of hadth but not the legal rulings derived from them cannot be counted among the Scholars of the Law." His student Ibn Ab `Asrn (d. 585) also followed this view in his book al-Intisr.40


=====================================
Not Every Sound Hadth Forms Evidence
=====================================

* Ibrhm al-Nakha` said: "Truly, I hear a hadth, then I see what part of it applies. I apply it and leave the rest."41 Shaykh Muhammad `Awwma said: "Meaning, what is recognized by the authorities is retained while anything odd (gharb), anomalous (shdhdh), or condemned (munkar) is put aside." Yazd ibn Ab Habb said: "When you hear a hadth, proclaim it; if it is recognized, [keep it,] otherwise, leave it."42

* Ibn Ab Layl said: "A man does not understand hadth until he knows what to take from it and what to leave."43

* `Abd al-Rahmn ibn Mahd, the Commander of the believers in Hadth, said: "It is impermissible for someone to be an Imm [i.e. to be imitated] until he knows what is sound and what is unsound and until he does not take everything [sound] as evidence, and until he knows the correct way to infer knowledge [in the Religion]."44

* Al-Shfi` narrated that Mlik ibn Anas was told: "Ibn `Uyayna narrates
>from al-Zuhr things you do not have!" He replied: "Why, should I narrate every single hadth I heard? Only if I wanted to misguide people!"45

Shaykh `Abd al-Fatth. Ab Ghudda mentioned some of the above examples and commented: "If the likes of Yahy al-Qat.t.n, Wak` ibn al-Jarrh., `Abd al-Razzq, Yahy ibn Ma`n, and those who compare with them, did not dare enter into ijtihd and fiqh, then how rash are the claimants to ijtihd in our time! On top of it, they call the Salaf ignorant without the least shame nor modesty! Allh is our refuge from failure."46

BLESSINGS AND PEACE ON THE PROPHET, his Family, his Companions, the Four Imms, and those who imitate them until the Day of Judgment.

======
NOTES
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1. Hadth of the Prophet - Allh bless and greet him - narrated from Mu`wiya by al-Bukhr and Muslim.

2. Al-Qr, Mu`taqad Ab Hanfata al-Imm f Abaway al-Rasl `Alayhi al-Salt wa al-Salm (p. 42).

3. A nearly-mass-narrated (mashhr) sound hadth of the Prophet - Allh bless and greet him - reported from several Companions by al-Tirmidh, Ab Dwd, Ibn Mjah, and Ahmad.

4. Ibn Ab Htim in the introduction of al-Jarh. wa al-Ta`dl (p. 22-23); Ibn Ab Zayd, al-Jmi` f al-Sunan (p. 118-119); Ibn `Abd al-Barr, al-Intiq' (p. 61); al-Dhahab. See Shaykh `Abd al-Fattah Ab Ghudda's comments on this statement in his notes on al-Lacknaw's al-Raf` wa al-Takmil (2nd ed. p. 368 - 369, 3rd ed. p. 90-91).

5. In al-Fatw al-Hadthiyya (p. 283).

6. Narrated by Ibn Hibbn in the introduction to al-Majrhn (1:42). He then narrates from Ibn Wahb a similar statement where he adds the names of `Amr ibn al-Hrith and Ibn Mjishn.

7. Narrated by Ibn `Askir and al-Bayhaq cf. Ibn Rajab, Sharh. al-`Ilal (1:413) and `Awwma (p. 76).

8. Narrated by Qd `Iyd.. in Tartb al-Madrik (2:427).

9. In Ibn al-Subk, Tabaqt al-Shfi`iyya al-Kubr (2:128).

10. Narrated by al-Khatb, al-Faqh wal-Mutafaqqih (2:80).

11. Shaykh Ism`l al-Ans.r as quoted by `Awwma, Athar (p. 77).

12. Ibn Hajar, Tahdhb al-Tahdhb (10:449-452 #817) and al-Dhahab's Manqib Ab Hanfa.

13. Narrated by al-Dhahab in Tadhkirat al-Huffz. (1:307) and Ibn Hajar in Tahdhb al-Tahdhb (10:450).

14. Narrated by Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Intiq' (p. 124).

15. Narrated by al-Dhahab in the Siyar (10:205).

16. Cf. Ibn Ab al-Waf, last page of the Karachi edition of al-Jawhir al-Mudiyya.

17. In Ibn `Abd al-Barr, Jmi` Bayn al-`Ilm (1:83-84), al-Qd `Iyd.., Tartb al-Madrik (2:62), al-Shtib, al-Muwfaqt (4:97-98).

18. "The Knowledge That Benefits is That Whose Rays Expand in the Breast and Whose Veil is Lifted in the Heart." Ibn `At' Allh, Hikam (#213).

19. Siyar (10:642).

20. Narrated mursal from al-H.asan by Ibn `Askir in his Trkh and al-Khatb in al-Jmi` li Akhlq al-Rw (1983 ed. 1:88 #27) cf. al-Jmi` al-Saghr (#9598) and Kanz (#29337).

21. Cited by al-Dhahab in the Siyar (al-Arna't. ed. 9:158, 12:328-329).

22. Cf. al-Dhahab, Tadhkirat al-H.uffz. (1:307) and Ibn H.ajar in Tahdhb al-Tahdhb (11:126-127).

23. In al-Sakhw, al-Jawhir wa al-Durar (p. 21).

24. Ibn Rajab, Sharh. `Ilal al-Tirmidh (1:411).

25. Cited from Zayd ibn Ab al-Zarqa' by al-Dhahab, Siyar (al-Arna't. ed. 7:275).

26. Al-Sakhw, al-Jawhir wa al-Durar (p. 20-23).

27. Narrated by al-Haraw al-Ans.r in Dhamm al-Kalm (4:139 #907).

28. In Ibn `Abd al-Barr, Jmi` Bayn al-`Ilm (2:175).

29. In al-Dhahab, Tadhkirat al-Huffz. (2:776).

30. Narrated by Ibn Ab H.tim in the introduction to his al-Jarh wa al-Ta`dl (p. 293), Ibn al-Jawz in Manqib al-Imm Ahmad (p. 63), and al-Dhahab in Trkh al-Islm (chapter on Ahmad).

31. In Muslim and the Four Sunan.

32. In al-Bukhr and Muslim.

33. Ibn al-Subk in Tabaqt al-Shfi`iyya, al-Sakhw in his introduction to al - Jawhir wa al-Durar, and al-Haytam in his Fatw Hadthiyya (p. 283). Something similar is narrated of Ahmad by Ibn Rajab in his Dhayl Tabaqt al-Hanbila (1:131) and al-`Ulaym in al-Manhaj al-Ahmad (2:208).

34. Ibn `Abd al-Barr, Jmi` Bayn al-`Ilm (2:160).

35. Ishq ibn Ibrhm ibn Makhlad, known as Ishq ibn Rhyah or Rhawayh, Ab Ya`qb al-Tamm al-Marwaz al-Hanzali (d. 238), one of the major hadth Masters. Ab Qudma considered him greater than Imm Ahmad in memorization of hadth, a remarkable assessment considering Ahmad's knowledge of 700,000 to a million narrations according to his son `Abd Allh's and Ab Zur`a al-Rz's estimations. He once said of himself: "I never wrote anything except I memorized it, and I can now see before me more than 70,000 hadths in my book"; "I know the place of 100,000 hadths as if I were looking at them, and I memorize 70,000 of them by heart - all sound (sahha) - and 4,000 falsified ones." [Narrated by al-Khatb in al-Jmi` li Akhlq al-Rw (2:380-381 #1832-1833).] He did not reach the same stature in fiqh. Al-Bayhaq and others narrate that he unsuccessfully debated al-Shfi` on a legal question, as a result of which the latter disapproved of his title as the "jurisprudent of Khursn." To a Jahm scholar who said: "I disbelieve in a Lord that descends from one heaven to another heaven," Ibn Rhyah replied: "I believe in a Lord that does what He wishes." [Narrated by al-Dhahab who identifies the scholar as Ibrhm ibn (Hishm) Ab Slih. in Mukhta.ar al-`Uluw (p. 191 #234).] Al-Bayhaq comments: "Ishq ibn Ibrhm al-Hanzali made it clear, in this report, that he considers the Descent (al-nuzl) one of the Attributes of Action (min sift al-f`l). Secondly, he spoke of a descent without `how'. This proves he did not hold displacement (al-intiql) and movement from one place to another (al-zawl) concerning it." [See post titled, "The `Descent' of Allh Most High".] Sources: Ibn Ab Ya`l, Tabaqt al-Hanbila (1:6, 1:184); al-Bayhaq, Manqib al-Shfi` (1:213) and al-Asm' wa al-Sift (2:375-376 #951); al-Dhahab, Siyar (9:558 #1877); Ibn al-Subk, Tabaqt al-Shfi`iyya al-Kubr (2:89-90, 9:81).

36. Narrated by Ab Ya`l in Tabaqt al-Hanbila (1:329) and cited by Shaykh Ab Ghudda in his introduction to Muhammad al-Shaybn's Muwatta' and his short masterpiece al-Isnd min al-Dn (p. 68).

37. Narrated by al-Rmahurmuz in al-Muh.addith al-Fsil (p. 560).

38. Ibn `Abd al-Salm, al-Fatw al-Mawsiliyya (p. 132-134).

39. In al-Sakhw, al-Jawhir wa al-Durar (p. 18).

40. Al-Sakhw, al-Jawhir wa al-Durar (p. 20-23).

41. Narrated from Ibn Ab Khaythama by Ab Nu`aym in the Hilya (4:225) and Ibn Rajab in Sharh. `Ilal al-Tirmidh (1:413).

42. In Ibn Rajab, Sharh. `Ilal al-Tirmidh (1:413).

43. In Ibn `Abd al-Barr, Jmi` Bayn al-`Ilm (2:130).

44. Narrated by Ab Nu`aym in the Hilya (9:3).

45. Narrated by al-Khatb in al-Jmi` li Akhlq al-Rw (2:109).

46. Ab Ghudda, al-Isnd min al-Dn (p. 68). He means by his remarks <A: a recent scholar of hadith> and others of his ilk. Ab Ghudda's student, Shaykh Muhammad `Awwma, listed several examples of this rule of the Salaf in his Athar al-Hadth al-Sharf f Ikhtilf al-A'immat al-Fuqah' ("The Mark of the Noble Hadth in the Differences of the Imms of Jurisprudence").

Last edited by alexandalus; 02-15-2006 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 02-16-2006, 06:54 PM   #8
bintamina
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,672
Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yusuf

Shaykh Saalih ibn Fawzaan ibn Abdullaah al-Fawzaan was asked, Noble Shaykh, there are those from amongst the people who do not distinguish between a muhaddith (scholar of hadeeth) and a faqeeh. In your view, O Noble Shaykh, which of the two are better for the student of knowledge to become? A muhaddith or a faqeeh?

He replied:

It is better to be a muhaddith and a faqeeh. So by becoming a muhaddith, one will be able to relate the ahaadeeth with their asaaneed (chains of narration) and he will know their narrators, he will know their levels and he will understand their meanings.

So the muhaddith is the one who is concerned with the narration of the hadeeth, its isnaad and its narrators. He knows the saheeh from the hasan and daeef. He knows what is fabricated or forged, this is the muhaddith. And the faqeeh is the one who understands the meanings of these texts and he derived rules and regulations (ahkaam) from them. So it is befitting for the student of knowledge to combine between two affairs: between relating the texts and distinguishing their saheeh from their weak; then he must have knowledge of their meanings and whatever is extracted from them in terms of ahkaam. So these ones are the people of narration and investigation (riwaayah wad-diraayah), and they are called fuqahaaulmuhadditheen.

Indeed, the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said, The example of my being sent is like the rain that drops upon the earth. So from the earth is that area which absorbs the water and sprout herbage. So the people drink from it and graze around it

This is the example of the muhaddithul-faqeeh who preserves the texts for the people and remains concerned with them. He understands their meaning and explains their meanings and secrets to the people. And the rain drops upon another area which has dry soil, so it does not sprout herbage. It holds the water and the people are able to irrigate and take drink from it This is the example of the huffaadh (memorizers) who are not concerned with memorizing the meanings of the Quraan. They are only concerned with retaining it and keeping free from alien elements. So there is a great excellence in this as well. There is a benefit for the Ummah when the Ummah protects the texts of its Shareeah and honour from alien elements. So they have a great virtue. However, they are at a lower level than those who came before them from the people of ar-riwaayah wad-diraayah (narration and investigation). These ones are to be called the people of riwaayah (narration) only.

And the third group and refuge is sought with Allaah is plain land which holds no water, nor does it retain any herbage. This is the example of those who do not accept the guidance of Allaah which His Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) came with. And they do not raise their heads with it. [In reference to the hadeeth related by al-Bukhaaree (no. 79) and Muslim (no. 2282).]
MashaaAllah.

Jazaakallahu Khayr.
__________________
Yoonus Ibn 'Ubayd (d.139H) rahimahullaah said:

"With good manners you understand the knowledge. With the knowledge, your actions are corrected. With actions, wisdom is obtained. With wisdom you understand zuhd (abstinence) and are granted its benefits. With zuhd comes abandoning the world. With abandoning the world comes desire for the Hereafter. With desire for the Hereafter the pleasure of Allaah the Mighty and Majestic is obtained."

Iqtidaa`ul 'Ilmil 'Amal (no. 31)
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Old 02-19-2006, 05:33 PM   #9
abu layth
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Salams to all, Imaam Ali bin Madani the great scholar of Hadith said:

'To understand the meaning of Hadith is half of knowledge and knowing Hadith is half of knowledge'

Collected by Ramahurmuzzi ( may Allah swt have mery upon him)in his Muhadith al faasal page p320. According to al Judai its isnad is authentic see Tahrir Ulum Hadith p6 published 2003 Mosasa al Rayan

'Knowing hadith' meaning: from that which is authentic from that which is not.

Just a point when giving references esp those of Arabic books it is better to actually tell us who published the book as sometimes the vol numbers, page numbers and even the hadith or athar number differs according to different publishers. For example i know of two editions of al Jami Akhlaq al Rawi of al Khatib, one published by Mosasa al Risala and the other by Maktaba al Ma'rif, therefore one needs to know which edition it is to check for references.

Also just mentioning an authority is not enough we need to know if that individual ( who ever it is ) actually said the statement. As you will find many statements coming from early scholars with a chain running back to them this helps in knowing whether the person said it or not.

Finally the author GF Haddad may Allah swt guide him and us to all that is righteous needs to learn from what al khatib and ibn Abd al Barr have collected in the manners of seeking ilm as his writings attest to his lack of scholarly manners.

Allah swt knows best

Last edited by abu layth; 02-20-2006 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 04-23-2006, 03:43 PM   #10
Abu Bakr
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Re: The Superiority Of Fiqh Over Hadith

Assalaamu Alaykum

It should be noted that many of the quotes about not narrating everything they hear are in relation to narrating authentic along with inauthentic, because many of the muhadditheen would desire to surpass others in narrating the most hadeeths, in which case, obviously, narrating everything they had would help, irrespective of authenticity. And often times, the imams would choose selectively which of their shaykhs' hadeeths they would narrate to others, so as to only be passing on the choicest hadeeths that they had.

Also, in contrast to some of these quotes, Imam Ahmad rahimahullaah has said, "I am amazed at people who will know the isnaad and its authenticity, yet they adopt the view of Sufyan."

It is true that not every hadeeth that APPEARS to be authentic is so, and the reference point for that should be the great hadeeth masters like Ahmad, ibn ul Madini, al-Bukhari, Abu Hatim, Abu Zur'ah, an-Nasa'i, Muslim, ad-Daraqutnee, and al-Bayhaqee, and others. Look to their works and you will see the depth of their insight into the issues of hadith and the critique of them, and while the specialists in fiqh such as Imam Abu Hanifah may be worthy of our great respect, they are not reference points for knowing what the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said or did not say.

It should also be noted that Imam Malik studied with Rabee'ah ar-Ra'i the great ahl ur ra'i scholar of madeenah, and was greatly influenced by him and benefited from him, but in spite of all tht, ibn 'Abdil-Barr mentions in the introduction of at-Tamheed that eventually Imam Malik stopped attending Rabee'ah's circles because of what he felt was his excessive reliance on ra'ii in his fiqh.

May Allah have mercy on them all.

In all fairness, the position that Haddad is presenting is not of his own creation nor is it a new one. one is free to choose to disagree with him however, as i do very strongly.

It should also be noted that one could very well say that fiqh, without hadeeth, is very dangerous. and in fact, in the introduction to his ma'alim as-sunan, imam al-Khattabi bemoans that in his time he found ahl al hadeeth not concerned with fiqh, and "ahl al fiqh" too lazy to learn hadeeths, and all you have to do is to look in the books of the fuqaha of subsequent generations to see how many of them used as evidence hadiths that are weak, extremely weak, or baseless.

Similarly, ibn al-Jawzi mentions in the introduction of his at-Tahqiq fi Ahadith al-Khilaf (which is an early takhrij work devoted to ahadith al ahkam) that he had refrained from writing such a book because earlier he had assumed that the books that had already been written for takhreej of the ahadith al ahkam used by the madhahib (he calls them ta'aaleeq) were sufficient, but then upon looking into them he was revulsed by what he found of not being able to recognize extremely weak and baseless hadiths for what they were. it is to be noted that ibn al Jawzi makes some significant mistakes in his critique of hadeeths in at-Tahqiq, but on the whole this is a beneficial book.

sorry for lack of references, im relying on my memory here.

And Allah knows best

Wassalaamu Alaykum
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