Secular Ethics vs Islam.. Where do they clash?

[UbaidSeth]

Where do secular ethics and Islamic morals both come to a point where they contradict one another?

Allahu A'lam,

The question is phrased wrong.

The problem when you say "secular ethics" the attached word "secular" indicates a detachment of what... Allah.

If you look up the definitions of both 'secular' and 'ethics' the answer should be clear.

"secular ethics" and "islamic morals" may be the wrong terms to ask the question.

Maybe "is there a point of contradiction if ethics is not taught islamically?" or something of that nature.

But just an interesting point,

Remember the difference between AKHLAAQ and ADAAB in you notes.

Contradiction in that:
It's when you corrupt your ethics from your original fitrah, and through doing this systematically you have given the rights of Allah to other than Allah. I maybe wrong in this, please someone correct me.

And another interesting point..

My aunt is taking this "Adolescent development class" for her teaching degree. Rather than let the TA grade her papers, the prof personally reads her papers. Why? All her papers indicate is a slant from a muslim perspective. This deen is ad deenu kamila, the perfected deen. And RasoolAllah salAllahu a'laihee wa salam said "i have not but come to perfect the manners.." naturally each facet she teaches just in this one class, can be derived in the teachings of RasoolAllah salAllahu a'laihee wa salam, yet they try it with logic, when they have faults, and walhamdulillah Allah has not put OUR Logic to be in charge of us... Alhamdulillahi rabbil A'lameen.

[this wasn't meant to be an answer by the way -)]

WAllahu A'lam

[Ibn Saif]

Salman al Awdah and Azzam Tamimi, two intellectuals of the Muslim world stated that we as Muslims must look at the origins of Modern Secularist Thought. We as Muslims should look at Secularism being neccassary for the European world because of the failures of the Catholic church in regards to progressing the sciences. Europeans needed to seperate the Church from the State, so that they could move on technologically. However, if we take a look back at Islamic history, we see that when Shariah was in place, the sciences flourished and the Islamic State was a harbinger unto the west for technological, scientific, social and philosophical advancements, unlike today, where ALL of the Muslim nations are secular, including the Arabian Peninsula. Unlike today when under these secular and "enlightened" rulers we find ourselves oppressed and falling down the hill in terms of progress.
With that said, Secularism and Islam are completely two different paths, Secularism being one of the dark paths. In Islam, it is foreign and disbelief to think that the people have the rule, that social progress dictates what is right, what is wrong and that morality is a gray area. Fifty years ago, homosexuality was seen as a taboo, now under this secular and so called progressive system, they celeberate on the streets in New York and how many years until their marriage is legalized as well.. This is simply one example of why Secularism is a disbelieving ideology. In Islam we affirm that Allah is the only legislator and to seek judgement in regards to our lives outside of the revealed sources (The Quraan and the Sunnah) or the sacred history (Time of the first three generations of the Muslims) is kufr al akbar. It is not the disbelief of those that reject Allah, his angels and such, rather it is the disbelief like that of the one that believes in a part of the book, and rejects another. We cannot say that no diety is worthy of worship and believe in this, and then turn to democratic principles or secularism to judge between what is right and what is wrong. Morality and Legislation are all revelation from Allah, to stray from this is rejecting a part of the message.

- Abu Hamza

[Ibn Saif]

As Salaam Alaykum bro

I have attached the two papers that i mentioned in my previous post. If you get a chance bro, read through them inshAllah

The PDF one is written by Sheikh Salman al Awdah from the Arabian Peninsula
The Two Word documents were written by Brother Azzam Tamimi of the Institude of Islamic Political Thought in London, i believe he is a Palestinian brother.

[Daeef Jiddan]

Originally Posted by UbaidSeth

Where do secular ethics and Islamic morals both come to a point where they contradict one another?

Bismillah ArRahman ArRaheem

Assalamu alaykum.

This question can be conceptualized at either the root level, or at the branch level.

At the level of root (usool) the opposition is almost complete, in that Islamic ethics are based upon Allah's judgment on what is ethical and what is not, while secular ethics is based on human judgment of good and evil. That is as great a difference as you can have between any two systems of ethics.

For instance, Ibrahim Khaleelullah's (alayh as salaato was salaam) attempt to sacrifice his innocent son was ethical (and in fact the height of piety) because Allah deemed it so, but one of us can't go and kill his son at Eid-ul-Adha because Allah has not allowed doing so, even though the act and the intent would both be the same. Viewed from a purely secular framework of ethics, the sacrifice of sayyidina Ibrahim (alayh as salaam) would have been the height of immorality and criminality (wal eeadhu billah).

I am using this atypical case to highlight the difference in the source of morality and the source of values between the two systems.

At the level of branches, the difference between secular ethics and Islamic ethics is variable, depending on the time and place (because secular values, being man-made, keep shifting as opinions change). Therefore many things, such as stealing, murder, cheating, lying are considered unethical by both systems, but other things (such as earning or paying interest, gambling, pornography, sexual permissiveness, etc.) may or may not be considered to be evil by a man-made system, depending on which particular secular society one is looking at. No generalized statement can be made in this regard, applicable to all secular societies.

Wassalam.