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Old 10-04-2007, 04:19 PM   #21
Hala
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by omer_k88
Allahu Alaam...care to remove my quote?
I was just a bit lost on where the YM/AlMaghrib discussion came from. I wasn't hinting that you should erase your post. I apologize if that is what it seemed like.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:35 PM   #22
~Safia~
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Someone once told me that AlMaghrib is a place of personality worship, coming from the students. Sort of cult-ish in some ways.

I would never describe it in those words, nor do I agree, but it wasn't until I took a class and became a student myself that I at least understood what this person was saying. I hate to generalize, but things like students at every appearance a shaykh makes while in town... spending hundreds, even thousands of dollars on programs... even taking every single word out of an instructor's mouth as fact rather than opinion. The exam we had recently was a perfect example. There were questions based on things the shaykh clearly said were his own opinion, but that opinion turned up on a multiple choice exam as the *right* answer.

I think that same attitude translates into the overeager marketing campaigns that some people get turned off by. Marketing can easily be fixed by taking a different approach... toning down people's excitement about seeing a shaykh or taking a class, not so much. There really isn't anything inherently wrong with feeling that way, it's just the way that those feelings manifest themselves. Some people might just want to tell another friend of theirs or be sure to catch the next class, while others may become somewhat obsessed with the institute and it's instructors. The individual I mentioned in the beginning probably ran into the latter.

I hope no one takes any of this personally, and if I have offended anyone in any way I apologize.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:01 PM   #23
omer_k88
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hala Hersi
I was just a bit lost on where the YM/AlMaghrib discussion came from. I wasn't hinting that you should erase your post. I apologize if that is what it seemed like.
The AM/YM discussion was precisely because the viral marketing of Almaghrib is annoying. At least to me. That was the context of what I said, sorry if I confused you.

AlMaghrib could put all the hyped up student energy to soooooo much use in activism. Ilm is minimum, not the maximum. I think you get where I'm coming from.
"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." (George Santayana)

I seriously hope Almaghrib has it in them to at least give this criticism some thought. As a very wise shaykh once, said: "He who praises me is my enemy and he who criticizes me is my friend." This is often the deciding factor between successes and failures.

For the record I wasn't involved with YM, but everything I saw was from observation. I can sense this is a touchy subject and I probably didn't chose my words correctly so my sincerest and humblest apologies if I caused any trouble and any grief to anyone. Twas not my intention at all.
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:28 AM   #24
knowledgeseeker
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by omer_k88
The AM/YM discussion was precisely because the viral marketing of Almaghrib is annoying. At least to me. That was the context of what I said, sorry if I confused you.

AlMaghrib could put all the hyped up student energy to soooooo much use in activism. Ilm is minimum, not the maximum. I think you get where I'm coming from.
"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." (George Santayana)

I seriously hope Almaghrib has it in them to at least give this criticism some thought. As a very wise shaykh once, said: "He who praises me is my enemy and he who criticizes me is my friend." This is often the deciding factor between successes and failures.

For the record I wasn't involved with YM, but everything I saw was from observation. I can sense this is a touchy subject and I probably didn't chose my words correctly so my sincerest and humblest apologies if I caused any trouble and any grief to anyone. Twas not my intention at all.
What I dont understand is why blame AlMaghrib for "loss of activism". AlMaghrib has its own goal and the goal is to provide authentic education. What people do with education is their own business, whether they use it or not, or how they use it. AlMaghrib is fulfilling its goal of providing education, other organizations have to fulfill their own.
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:52 AM   #25
knowledgeseeker
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Safia~
Someone once told me that AlMaghrib is a place of personality worship, coming from the students. Sort of cult-ish in some ways.

I would never describe it in those words, nor do I agree, but it wasn't until I took a class and became a student myself that I at least understood what this person was saying. I hate to generalize, but things like students at every appearance a shaykh makes while in town... spending hundreds, even thousands of dollars on programs... even taking every single word out of an instructor's mouth as fact rather than opinion. The exam we had recently was a perfect example. There were questions based on things the shaykh clearly said were his own opinion, but that opinion turned up on a multiple choice exam as the *right* answer.

I think that same attitude translates into the overeager marketing campaigns that some people get turned off by. Marketing can easily be fixed by taking a different approach... toning down people's excitement about seeing a shaykh or taking a class, not so much. There really isn't anything inherently wrong with feeling that way, it's just the way that those feelings manifest themselves. Some people might just want to tell another friend of theirs or be sure to catch the next class, while others may become somewhat obsessed with the institute and it's instructors. The individual I mentioned in the beginning probably ran into the latter.

I hope no one takes any of this personally, and if I have offended anyone in any way I apologize.
I am sorry but I really dont see why its wrong to admire shuyookhs who give up so much of their lives for us to understand this deen. Muhammad Sallhuwa3lihiwasalam said Scholars are inheritors of the prophets, so why is it wrong to cling on to the words of the scholars, and take down every single thing they say if you really trust them? If someone does not agree with the scholar fine they dont need to , but if someone does, there is nothing wrong for showing up to every single seminar or lectures that this scholar gives. I think problem with us today is we trivilize our scholars and the work they do. We dont understand or seem to even understand how often they have to leave their families behind just so we can learn this deen..I think it was Imam Shafee (but I may be wrong) who said that if someone teaches me one thing I would become their SERVANT for the rest of their lives. Servant!!, can we even grasp that reality?Seriously, we should think about it.
We often hear "oh shuyooks of this time are the same as before", but we dont understand that students of this time are not the same as before.
Yes we should not think that scholars cannot make mistakes or raise their status so high that is not their due, but lets give our scholars that is their due.

When I took Light of Guidance in Ottawa and came back to Montreal I called all my friends and I told them I would like to teach them , why? because I can see it was so beneficial to me and it will be beneficial to my friends. I had sense of urgency, I wanted to teach them eveything I knew, and it was at that point I understood the persistency of the Prophets and the Scholars of spreading the knowledge. I understood how Prophet would feel to some extent when he see people misguided because the truth to him was so apparent.

May Allah Subhanuwatl3aa preserve our scholars and grant them Jannah tul firdous and may us all among the dwellers of paradise.
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:30 PM   #26
Ibrahim ibnImran
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Regarding the last two posts by knowledgeseeker, this is all I have to say:
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:22 PM   #27
~Safia~
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeseeker
I am sorry but I really dont see why its wrong to admire shuyookhs who give up so much of their lives for us to understand this deen. Muhammad Sallhuwa3lihiwasalam said Scholars are inheritors of the prophets, so why is it wrong to cling on to the words of the scholars, and take down every single thing they say if you really trust them? If someone does not agree with the scholar fine they dont need to , but if someone does, there is nothing wrong for showing up to every single seminar or lectures that this scholar gives. I think problem with us today is we trivilize our scholars and the work they do. We dont understand or seem to even understand how often they have to leave their families behind just so we can learn this deen..I think it was Imam Shafee (but I may be wrong) who said that if someone teaches me one thing I would become their SERVANT for the rest of their lives. Servant!!, can we even grasp that reality?Seriously, we should think about it.
We often hear "oh shuyooks of this time are the same as before", but we dont understand that students of this time are not the same as before.
Yes we should not think that scholars cannot make mistakes or raise their status so high that is not their due, but lets give our scholars that is their due.

When I took Light of Guidance in Ottawa and came back to Montreal I called all my friends and I told them I would like to teach them , why? because I can see it was so beneficial to me and it will be beneficial to my friends. I had sense of urgency, I wanted to teach them eveything I knew, and it was at that point I understood the persistency of the Prophets and the Scholars of spreading the knowledge. I understood how Prophet would feel to some extent when he see people misguided because the truth to him was so apparent.

May Allah Subhanuwatl3aa preserve our scholars and grant them Jannah tul firdous and may us all among the dwellers of paradise.
Assalamu alaikum,

Admiration is completely different than obsession. I admire the shaykhs greatly, as would most AlMaghrib students, but I've met people who are fanatics. It's also important to differentiate between the terms 'shaykh' and 'scholar', as I don't believe any of the instructors consider themselves scholars of Islam.
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:06 PM   #28
omer_k88
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

^I second sister Safia...

There is a level of very special admiration that can only be reserved for Rasulullah SAAWS and the Salaf (may Allah be pleased with them). We cannot be so devoted to our shaykhs because what if one day they become misguided or worse leave Islam? What then? It's happened in the past and it may happen again.

May Allah protect us and guide us to the Straight Path. Ameen.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:47 PM   #29
Megan Wyatt
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

The good thing about this entire discussion is that we have all at least agreed on one thing: We all seem to have "Felt" the over-the-top marketing. Khair, insha'Allah. No one and no organization is perfect. I'll bet those individuals will be new to AlMaghrib, and totally hyped about it Sorta like falling in love...after a couple of years, they'll chill a bit! But until then, they are slightly obsessed! lool

The question is, what kind of constructive ideas can we implement to avoid it being annoying. Everything has a fine line, and everything should be balanced. I think a new thread should be started with positive ideas. =) Most of the marketing discussion includes such comments.

I think its time for this thread to close, and we move towards a new inspiration of ideas!
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:14 PM   #30
Nida A.
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Re: Marketing --> Verge of annoying?

I've only taken two classes, both of which I enjoyed. One was a three day seminar, the other six. Two things I find hurtful, not annoying, is the oh its only six days line and the you spend so much money on tuition why not pay 165--wait 135-- for a Islamic seminar? in retrospect, its well worth it. But for some of us, its very difficult to focus on your coursework AND remember the knowledge you gain from learning about your deen.

When I take a class about Islam, or attend a lecture, I dont want to be worrying about how well I did in organic chemistry or what formula's Ill need for my physics exam. I dont want to take an Almaghrib class and let it slide by, I want to immerse myself in them and carry that rush with me well after I've taken the class. These seminars are so unique and you know when youre going to them the information is legitimate and well balanced.

Remember just because someone may say No to one seminar doesn't mean they'll say No to all. Once you get someone to register its good to follow up with them later on. It just shows that you are after all well meaning and it makes the registeree feel less hounded more included and more likely to come to more seminars <3
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