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Old 11-20-2008, 08:35 PM   #1
JayshAllah
Ummat Muhammad
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

As-Salam Alaykum.

Question for Ustadh Yasir Qadhi:

Let's say I am lost in the desert, and my camel runs off...is it permissible for me to call on the angels to retrieve it? What if I call on the angels with the intention that I am only calling on those angels that are nearby in the desert and not those angels above in the heavens?

I am asking because of this weak hadeeth here:
“When one loses his means of transport in a (deserted) land, he should call: “O slaves of Allah! Help me recover (my transport)” for there are many of Allah’s attendants on this earth. They will help you recover it.”’
However, this article (posted on an extremist Sufi site) claims that Imam Ahmad and Imam an-Nawawi allowed this du`a and did use it.

I understand the difference between calling the angels nearby as opposed to those in the heavens...I also understand why this hadeeth (or Imam Ahmad and Imam an-nawawi's view) are NOT a proof for calling on the dead.

But my question is: EVEN still, wouldn't it be haram since we shouldn't be calling on angels at all, even if they are near or far...so long as they are part of the Unseen?

Jazakh-Allah khair.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:30 PM   #2
Atif
Qabeelat Wasat
 
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Re: Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

Actually, they're claiming that the hadith is "hasan with support"
That link will be most likely be snipped (with good reason, that site is a dangerous site. It has articles supporting kufr, borderline shirk, and bid'ah; not all of them are easy refutable by a layman)

I'll post the text of the article (since I too am interested in the response):
Quote:
O Slaves of Allāh! Help Me!1

“When one loses his means of transport in a (deserted) land, he should call: ‘O slaves of Allāh! Help me recover (my transport),’ for there are many of Allāh’s attendants on this earth. They will help you recover it.”
Al-Tabarānī said:
“Ibrahim Ibn Naila al-Asbahāni narrated to us from al-Hasan Ibn `Umar Ibn Shaqīq from Ma`rūf Ibn Hasan al-Samarqandi from Sa’id Ibn Abi Arūba from Qatāda from Abdullah Ibn Burayda from `Abdullāh Ibn Mas`ūd that he said: ‘The Messenger of Allāh said:
“When one loses his means of transport in a (deserted) land, he should call: “O slaves of Allāh! Help me recover (my transport)” for there are many of Allāh’s attendants on this earth. They will help you recover it.”’”2
Abū Ya’la has narrated it like this 3 as well as Ibn al-Sunnī.4 (Nūruddīn) al-Haythamī said after quoting Abu Ya’la and al-Tabarānī:
“The chain contains Ma`rūf Ibn Hasan who is da`īf.” 5
The same was said by al-Hāfidh al-Busīrī. 6 Al-Hāfidh Ibn Hajar (al-Asqalāni) said, after ascribing it to Ibn al-Sunnī and al-Tabarānī:
“There is inqitā (discontinuation) in the chain between Ibn Burāydah and Ibn Mas’ūd.” 7
Nonetheless, the Hadīth has supporting routes which transform it from a weak Hadīth to
a hasan (fair) one which is acceptable and actable upon.

Firstly

Regarding what al-Tabarānī transmitted through the route of `Abdul Rahmān Ibn Sharīk who said his father related from Abū `Abdullāh Ibn `Isā from Yazīd Ibn `Alī from `Utba Ibn Ghazwān from the Prophet that he said:
_______________________
1
Mahmūd Mamdūh, raf al-mināra bi-ahadiīh al-tawassul wal-ziyāra (Raising the Lighthouse with the
Hadīths of Seeking Means and Visitation [of the Prophet )
2 al-Tabarānī, mu`jam al-kabīr (10/267)
3 Abū Ya’la, musnad (9/177)
4 Ibn al-Sunnī, `amal al-yawmi wal-layla (p.162)
5al-Haythamī, al-majmū` al-zawā’id (10/132)
6al-Busīrī, mukhtasar Ithāf al-sadatul muhrah (notes to matālib al-alīyya, 3/239)
7Ibn Hajar, takhrīj al-adhkār (sharh ibn allan, 5/150)

Page 2


”When one of you loses something or desires assistance while in a land where no person of assistance (is available) he should say ‘O slaves of Allāh! Assist me; help me,’ for indeed Allāh has many slaves who we do not see.”
Al-Tabarānī added:
“and this has been acted upon”. 8
I say: The chain contains da`f (weakness) and inqitā. Al-Hāfidh al-Haythamī said:
“al-Tabarānī narrated it and its narrators have been declared reliable although there is weakness in some of them; except that, Zayd Ibn `Alī did not meet `Utba.” 9
Al-Hāfidh (Ibn Hajar) restricted (his comments) on its defects to (pointing out) the inqitā (and not mentioning the weakness of the narrators) saying,
“al-Tabarānī transmitted it with a munqatī (discontinued) chain from `Utba Ibn Ghazwān, as a marfū’ (traceable i.e. to the Prophet ) narration.” 10

Secondly
Regarding what Ibn Abī Shayba related:
“Yazīd Ibn Harūn related to us saying: ‘Muhammad Ibn Ishaq reported to us from Abān Ibn Salih that the Messenger of Allāh said:
“When one of your means of transport or camel flees in a (deserted)
land, where none can be seen, he should say ‘Assist me O slaves of
Allāh,’ for he shall be assisted.”’” 11

This Hadīth is mursal (the Tabi`ī drops the Sahabī and narrates directly from the Prophet . If it weren’t for the an’ana (i.e. instead of saying “he narrated to me”, it is said “from him” which creates the possibility of an unknown narrator in between) of Muhammad Ibn Ishāq, the chain would have been hasan. Al-Albānī claimed it had the defect of being mu’dal (where two consecutive narrators are dropped and not just one as would be the case with a mursalhadith) 12 but this is incorrect because Abān Ibn Sālih was from the younger Tabi’īn. And Allāh knows best.

Thirdly
Regarding what al-Bazzār transmitted:
“Musā Ibn Ishāq related to us from Manjab Ibn al-Harith, Hātim Ibn Isma’īl related to us from Usāma Ibn Zayd from Abān Ibn Sālih from Mujāhid from Ibn `Abbās that the Messenger of Allāh said:
________________________________
8
al-Tabarānī, mu`jam al-kabīr (17/117)
9al-Haythamī, al-majmū` al-zawā’id (10/132)
10Ibn Hajar, takhrīj al-adhkār (sharh ibn allan, 5/150)
11Ibn Abī Shayba, al-musannaf (10/424, 425)
12 al-Albānī, da`īfa (2/109)

Page 3

“Indeed Allāh possesses Angels besides the Hafadha (the Angels of
Protection) who write (of even) the leaf which falls from a tree so
when one of you suffers a limp in a deserted land he should call,
‘Assist (me) O slaves of Allāh’”” 13

Al-Haythamī said:
“Al-Bazzār related it and its narrators are reliable.” 14
Al-Hāfidh (Ibn Hajar) said:
“The chain is hasan and gharīb jiddan (very rare)”15
Al-Hāfidh, restricting himself to saying it is hasan, shows he considered Usāma Ibn Zayd reliable for there is difference of opinion over him. Al-Bayhāqi transmitted it in Shu’bul Imān on the authority of Ibn Abbās also, but in a mawqūf (untraceable) form through
Ja’far Ibn Awn from Usāma Ibn Zayd from Abān Ibn Salih from Mujāhid from Ibn `Abbās.

Al-Albānī claimed that the marfū` route had a defect because of the mawqūf route since Ja’far Ibn Awn (who narrated the mawquf route) is more reliable than Hātim Ibn Isma’il (who narrated the marfū` route) so the Hadīth becomes defective due to the discrepancy
while the preferred view is that it is mawqūf.
16

This is incorrect from two angles:


1. It is the convention in the science of Hadīth that when there is a contradiction of whether a Hadīth is raised back (to the Nabī
) or halted, the raised back is given preference in judgement. Imām al-Nawawī said:
“When some of the accurate and reliable narrators narrate (a Hadīth as) muttasil (connected) and others (narrate it as) mursal; or some (narrate it as) mawqūf and other (narrate it as) marfū`; or it is (narrated) mawsūl (continuous) once and then marfū` another time and as a mursal or mawqūf another time, then the correct approach is as the muhaqqiqūn (verifiers) from the muhaddithūn (scholars of Hadīth), and it is the saying of the fuqahā (jurists) and scholars of usūl (Islamic jurisprudence) have said and al-Khatīb al-Baghdādi regarded it correct: That the ruling (of the status of the Hadīth) is from the one who narrated it as mawsūl or marfū` whether the opposing narrations are from more reliable
narrators or from more numerous narrators or from narrators with better memory because this is an addition from a reliable narrator and it is acceptable (ziyāda thiqa wa-hiya maqbūla).” 17
Ibn al-Hādī has clarified this. 18

___________________________________
13
al-Bazzār, musnad (kashf al-astār 4/33-34)
14al-Haythamī, al-majmū` al-zawā’id (10/132)
15Ibn Hajar, takhrīj al-adhkār (sharh ibn allan, 5/151)
16al-Albānī, da`īfa (2/109)
17al-Nawawī, sharh sahīh muslim (muqadama 1/32)
18[It appears to be] Ibn `Abdul Hādī, al-tanqīh (1/350); Egypt

Page 4



2. Hātim Ibn Isma’īl is not alone in narrating the hadith in marfū` form; rather, Muhammad Ibn Ishāq has also done so as has been previously discussed as in the case of the supporting narration of `Abdullāh Ibn Mas`ūd as mentioned first.
What should have been said is that Abān Ibn Sālih would narrate it marfū` some times and at other times he did not feel it necessary to narrate it marfū` as it is seen similarly very often. And Allāh knows best.
Therefore the claim of this hadith being defective by al-Albānī because the mawqūf would replace the marfū` holds no weight; he only did so to repel the meaning of the Hadīth and to dispose of it with whatever means even if it meant going against the principles of
Hadīth; may Allāh forgive.
From what has preceded, it has been acknowledged that the Hadīth is jayyid (good) and maqbūl (acceptable) and that the third supporting narration has a hasan chain itself, and Allāh knows best.
Benefit

When a Hadīth is mentioned with a da`īf chain it becomes acceptable, either sahīh or hasan, when the Ummah has accepted it; as for when some of the scholars have practised it like the Hadīth at hand their action strengthens the report. Al-Hāfidh al-Bayhaqī said, after narrating the Hadīth on salāt al-tasabīh:

“`Abdullāh Ibn al-Mubārak would do it and it has been passed down by the pious and this strengthens the marfū` Hadīth.” 19
A similar statement was made by his Shaykh al-Hākim. 20

The Hadīth has been acted upon and practiced by the scholars:
`Abdullāh Ibn Imām Ahmad said, “I heard my father say:

‘I did five Hajjs: two on camel and three on foot, or two on foot and three on camel and when I lost my way when walking I would say “O slaves of Allāh! Guide us towards the (correct) route,” and then I continued a little before I found myself back on the (correct) route’ or as it was said by my father”.21
• After Abūl Qāsim al-Tabarānī transmitted it, he said:
“This has been acted upon.”22

_______________________________
19
al-Bayhaqī, al-sunan al-kubra (3/52)
20 al-Hākim, al-mustadrak (1/320)
21 al-Bayhaqī, al-masā’il; and shū’b al-imān
22 al-Tabarānī, mū`jam al kabīr (17/117)

Page 5


Imām an-Nawawī, after mentioning this Hadīth:
“One of our kibār (major scholars) in knowledge related to me that he lost his means of transport, which I presume was a mule, and he was aware of this Hadīth and said (the dū`a) so Allāh brought to him his animal immediately.”
“I was once with a group of people and my animal fled and the people failed (to find it) and I said (the du’a) and I found the animal immediately without any means but this statement.”23

The upshot is one who is researching can take two paths in strengthening this Hadīth:
1. Using the supporting evidences, so this Hadīth becomes hasan and there is no doubt in this.
2. It is strengthened due to the practice of the Ummah. One of these paths (the latter) is stronger than the other (the first).
And Allāh knows best.

_______________________

23
al-Nawawī, al-adhkār (p.133)

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Old 11-28-2008, 10:28 AM   #3
AbdulBasit
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Re: Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

When Ibraheem صلى الله عليه وسلم was thrown (or launched) into the pite of fire, by his evil people -- he said the phrase "Allah is sufficient for me, He's enough for me. I don't need anybody else. ونعم والوكيل And He is the best one to place my trust in. He will take care of all my affairs."

Its reported that, Angel Jibreel (Gabriel) came to him and asked him if he needed any help. Ibraheem replied: "From you, no!" * Even in that dire state, He did not ask Jibreel (who was right there with him) for any help. He said, حسبي اللــه! ونعم الوكيل

Was-Salaam.
__________________
"The graves of sinners from the People of Sunnah is a garden, while the graves of the pious ascetics from the People of Innovation is a barren pit. The sinners among Ahlus-Sunnah are the Friends of Allaah, while the pious among Ahlul-Bid'ah are the Enemies of Allaah."
-- Quote from the great Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (رحمه الله).
قبورُ أهل السنة من أهل الكَبَائِرِ روضة, وقبورُ أهْل البِدَعِ مِنَ الزهاد حُفرَة, فُسَّاقُ أهل السنة أولياء الله, وزُهَّادُ أهل البِدْعَة أعْداء الله
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:32 PM   #4
JayshAllah
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Re: Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdulBasit
When Ibraheem صلى الله عليه وسلم was thrown (or launched) into the pite of fire, by his evil people -- he said the phrase "Allah is sufficient for me, He's enough for me. I don't need anybody else. ونعم والوكيل And He is the best one to place my trust in. He will take care of all my affairs."

Its reported that, Angel Jibreel (Gabriel) came to him and asked him if he needed any help. Ibraheem replied: "From you, no!" * Even in that dire state, He did not ask Jibreel (who was right there with him) for any help. He said, حسبي اللــه! ونعم الوكيل

Was-Salaam.
Unbelievably the Sufi extremists use this narration as a proof that getting help from angels is ok.
__________________
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:05 PM   #5
AbdulBasit
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Re: Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

Wow! Thats weird. I mean, the purpose of then narration -- is to show, how Ibraheem (even in that extreme state) did not ask the best of angels (Jibreel). He said حسبي الله Allah is enough for me! He alone. * I wonder how they twist this report to say, that it is good to seek help from angels..

Well I can kind of see it now .... they probably argue: "It is permissible to", otherwise Jibreel would not have come. * Well this is weak. Most likely, this was a test for Prophet Ibraheem. In that extreme state, what would he do? And he passed. He put his full trust in Allah alone.
__________________
"The graves of sinners from the People of Sunnah is a garden, while the graves of the pious ascetics from the People of Innovation is a barren pit. The sinners among Ahlus-Sunnah are the Friends of Allaah, while the pious among Ahlul-Bid'ah are the Enemies of Allaah."
-- Quote from the great Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (رحمه الله).
قبورُ أهل السنة من أهل الكَبَائِرِ روضة, وقبورُ أهْل البِدَعِ مِنَ الزهاد حُفرَة, فُسَّاقُ أهل السنة أولياء الله, وزُهَّادُ أهل البِدْعَة أعْداء الله
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:40 PM   #6
JayshAllah
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Re: Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdulBasit
Well I can kind of see it now .... they probably argue: "It is permissible to", otherwise Jibreel would not have come. * Well this is weak. Most likely, this was a test for Prophet Ibraheem. In that extreme state, what would he do? And he passed. He put his full trust in Allah alone.
Not only this, but none of us from Ahl as-Sunnah deny that the angels *can* help us with the Will and Command of Allah [swt]. Rather, we believe that it is haram to ask anyone to help us other than Allah [swt]. We CALL ON ALLAH [swt] ALONE for help, and then Allah [swt] may dispatch His Angel to help us. But we cannot call on the angel for help, since the angel can only do what Allah [swt] commands him (the angel) to do, and Allah [swt] has forbidden His angels from helping those who call on other than Allah [swt].
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:09 PM   #7
Atif
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Re: Q for Sh. Yasir Qadhi: (please answer!) Calling on the angels for help?

What's confusing is, that they're trying to claim that calling on angels is a type of natural help, because "there are many of Allah’s attendants on this earth".
Asking for natural help is permissible, the question is, is calling on an angel natural help?
Such an act sounds repugnant to me, but I would like to see the response.
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