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Old 06-16-2010, 12:01 PM   #1
SYW
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Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

Has anyone got the book "a critical study of shirk" ??

On page 22 (and also as Sheikh mentioned)--

the ayah from Surat an-nisaa: 48

"Verily Allah will not forgive that shirk be done with Him ,but He will forgive anything LESS THAN that to whomever He wills"

So we use this to conclude that kufr and nifaaq are equally repugnant and so will not be forgiven by Allah (unless someone repents and rectifies)...by using the words "less than" as it does not say "other than"

My question is-

the arabic uses the word دون

So why is it translated as "less than" in this ayat

but "other than " in other ayaat....eg Noble Quran (Nisaa ayat 116)

Can we still use this particluar line of argument "less than" to say kufr and nifaaq are also not to be forgiven by Allah ?

I am still reading into this but just wondered if anyone had any thoughts..
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:06 PM   #2
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

Maybe it's a bad translation they used?

As far as I know (and I'm not a scholar or anything, just a student), the word دون means other than, besides. Wallahu 'alam. If I find out, I'll let you know inshaAllah.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:23 PM   #3
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

asked our local Mauritanian Arabic language expert.
expect an answer soon inshallah!
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:42 PM   #4
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

Jazakumullah khayrn folks

For me if the translation should be "other than" ie "other than shirk will be forgiven"..then this line of argument doesn't seem to hold water

not that I believe kufr and nifaaq will be forgiven..

just this particular line of argument doesn't make sense to me..ie to say--"as kufr and nifaaq are equally repugnant and that "less than" is forgiven...it excludes kufr and nifaaq from being forgiven.

sorry but does that make sense to anyone--I know it may seem pedantic..so sorry if it does.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:30 PM   #5
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

I looked at my translation and word analysis notes from when my teacher explained these ayaat to us and both "other than, besides" were used and she also said it could mean "less than." I know that in different places and depending on the context words can have a slightly different meaning. Wallahu 'alam.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:46 PM   #6
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

It can be understood as less than because shirk is known as dhulmun 'adheem (greatest injustice), and any sin besides it is lesser in severity. Wallahu 'alam.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:27 PM   #7
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bint_habibullah
It can be understood as less than because shirk is known as dhulmun 'adheem (greatest injustice), and any sin besides it is lesser in severity. Wallahu 'alam.
here is the ibn kathir tafsir of the verse:
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11369

as the sister mentioned, to expand on that, shirk is just a special type of kufr, just like nifaq is a special type of kufr.

Kufr is a general term. there are types of kufr.
shirk is a TYPE of kufr
Nifaq is a TYPE of kufr

not sure where the confusion comes from. but still waiting on the linguistic definition from my teacher, hes checking the books.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:36 AM   #8
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

MrSonic---thanks for your honesty..

my confusion was the following:-

what is the proof (from this specific ayah and ayah 116) that Heraclius (who was neither mushrik nor munaafiq but still died on kufr)... will NEVER be forgiven..IF the ayah says "shirk" will never be forgiven but "other than" that will be...

NB/ this line of argument was one that Sheikh proposed to refute those who say kufr can be forgiven even if shirk not committed.

does that make sense????

Bint Habibullah ..if the ayah is correctly translated and meant to mean "less than".....then it solves the problem alhamdulillah.... w'Allahu a'lam



Barak'Allahu fikum

Last edited by SYW; 06-26-2010 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:35 AM   #9
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsonic
if heracliu's kufr did not REACH the level of the common type of kufr i.e shirk, then it is clearly LESS than the common type of kufr.
does this mean that kufr and hypocrisy at ANY LEVEL will not be forgiven?
we should realize that islam and kufr are at opposite ends.
islam is to submit to Allah, thereby gaining Allah's Pleasure and Jannah.
kufr is to turn away from Allah, thereby gaining Allah's Anger and Jahannum.

nifaq means to enter islam and then leave from the backdoor. so a person has left Islam in this case.
Shirk is to accept partners along with your worship of Allah. So a person has left Islam in this case
Kufr is to reject Islam altogether. So a person has left Islam in this case

*note here we are talking about general types of each that remove a person from Islam,

Yasir Qadhi says,
"Kufr is on the same "repugnancy level" as shirk, and Allah has said that he will not forgive anything lesser than shirk. So kufr is not leser than shirk, and Allah will not forgive it." (Light of Guidance Q and A, pg. 131)

hope that helps.
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:21 PM   #10
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Re: Question on surat an nisaa ayah 48. Use of the words "less than"

Yasir Qadhi says,
"Kufr is on the same "repugnancy level" as shirk, and Allah has said that he will not forgive anything lesser than shirk. So kufr is not lesser than shirk, and Allah will not forgive it." (Light of Guidance Q and A, pg. 131)

Masha'Allah gkhan---that was what I understood from LOG too...

Hence my initial question /thread starter...in this ayah and ayah 116 (surat an-nisaa') does Allah 'azza wa jall say "less than" shirk is forgiven or "other than" shirk is forgiven???

When sheikh mentioned this at LOG, he said the words used are less than, thus proving that kufr and nifaaq are also NEVER forgiven. Had Allah said He forgives "other than" shirk, then one could say that the kaafir who doesn't commit shirk "may" be forgiven if Allah wills...



ps where can I access LOG Q&A p131..sorry am new to al maghrib...
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